As PIC, what is your action if......
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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Found it! This rumbled back and forth between lawyers, Railways Act and Human Rights with no real conclusion. Its all part of the job really. A qualified legal opinion would be 'of interest' - but would probably not change my actions.
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Everybody has the right to change their minds and we arn't driving prison ships. If its been explained to said punter about the ramifications and they still want to get off before getting airborne, then they have to be allowed off.
If a pax who said they wanted to get off was refused and then had a panic attack airborne, i'd say they would be well within their rights to sue the skipper to kingdom come.
If a pax who said they wanted to get off was refused and then had a panic attack airborne, i'd say they would be well within their rights to sue the skipper to kingdom come.
Join Date: Jun 2006
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We take these utter plonkers and grockles abroad
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Disgusted of Tunbridge
Disgusted of Tunbridge
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Drongo it is!
I Just Fly- you are Ryanair? Very few bags on small aeroplanes? Easy to get off and sort the problem. Not so easy in a 747!
We are dealing with people who may make a bomb hoax call if they are running late for their flight! But when someone buys a ticket for a flight and thus enters into a contract with the airline for carriage, I believe they do not have a leg to stand on if they should try to claim kidnapping or unlawful detention should they change their mind and decide that the runes are telling them not to go. I have yet to hear of anybody pressing ahead and risking ALL they own on trying this in law in a High Court! So it really is a chestnut trying to claim it is a problem.
I Just Fly- you are Ryanair? Very few bags on small aeroplanes? Easy to get off and sort the problem. Not so easy in a 747!
We are dealing with people who may make a bomb hoax call if they are running late for their flight! But when someone buys a ticket for a flight and thus enters into a contract with the airline for carriage, I believe they do not have a leg to stand on if they should try to claim kidnapping or unlawful detention should they change their mind and decide that the runes are telling them not to go. I have yet to hear of anybody pressing ahead and risking ALL they own on trying this in law in a High Court! So it really is a chestnut trying to claim it is a problem.
Join Date: Jun 2004
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I COMPLETELY agree with everything that Rainboe has said on this thread, that is how it should be in a perfect world. But it isn't..............
In at least one country, Australia, or on board any Australian registered aircraft, ANY passenger has the right to be disembarked (should be disemboweled) up to the point of Brakes Release for Takeoff. This is in spite of all of the numerous security problems and the inconvenience to all parties if they should wish to do so. Perhaps other countries have similar rules.
This is not the common-sense point of view put across by Rainboe (with which I concur), it is the LEGAL position, and we have to live with it.
PS : This isn't in any of the Aviation rule books, it's a part of Common Law.
Regards,
Old Smokey
In at least one country, Australia, or on board any Australian registered aircraft, ANY passenger has the right to be disembarked (should be disemboweled) up to the point of Brakes Release for Takeoff. This is in spite of all of the numerous security problems and the inconvenience to all parties if they should wish to do so. Perhaps other countries have similar rules.
This is not the common-sense point of view put across by Rainboe (with which I concur), it is the LEGAL position, and we have to live with it.
PS : This isn't in any of the Aviation rule books, it's a part of Common Law.
Regards,
Old Smokey
Warning Toxic!
Disgusted of Tunbridge
Disgusted of Tunbridge
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That makes as much sense to me as getting on a bus and then demanding to be taken to your home, not the bus stop, or you will claim 'kidnapping', or 'unlawful detention'. To do so, those people would have to prove their case at possibly bankruptable costs if they lose. Despite all the talk about these alleged 'human rights', I don't think many people would dare test the case. They formed a contract for transport with the airline of their own free will by purchasing a ticket. They boarded the aircraft with the intention to traveling to the agreed destination. They then changed their mind.
This excessive pandering to peoples' whims will put us all out of a job! It only focuses on the needs of an extreme minority which apparently override the needs and rights of the great majority to travel unencumbered and unrestrained according to their contract with the airline.
Brutal though it may be thought to be, but I would be inclined to announce on the Public Address that 'the passenger in seat 21J has decided that he wishes to leave the aircraft at this stage after all! Because of the need to remove his bags, we are likely to experience a delay that could be several hours. We may have to have a crew change which will delay us into the curfew, so we may not be able to depart until some time tomorrow. Have a nice day now!'- and leave the other passengers to sort it out!
This excessive pandering to peoples' whims will put us all out of a job! It only focuses on the needs of an extreme minority which apparently override the needs and rights of the great majority to travel unencumbered and unrestrained according to their contract with the airline.
Brutal though it may be thought to be, but I would be inclined to announce on the Public Address that 'the passenger in seat 21J has decided that he wishes to leave the aircraft at this stage after all! Because of the need to remove his bags, we are likely to experience a delay that could be several hours. We may have to have a crew change which will delay us into the curfew, so we may not be able to depart until some time tomorrow. Have a nice day now!'- and leave the other passengers to sort it out!
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I'm glad that you could not resist Pugilistic Animus, I think that that small clip says it all!!
My only problem is that I could not identify Rainboe, 411A or myself in the queue of assailants.
(I still completely agree with you Rainboe, but the law (particularly Australian law), is an ASS.
Regards,
Old Smokey
My only problem is that I could not identify Rainboe, 411A or myself in the queue of assailants.
(I still completely agree with you Rainboe, but the law (particularly Australian law), is an ASS.
Regards,
Old Smokey
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I had this a year or so back when se diverted and several pax wanted to get off as it was closer to home than our destination.
It was pointed out that if they got off
1. They had broken the terms of the general conditions of carriage, (to be taken to their destination) and are liable for any costs incurred. These would include delayed flight costs, ad-hoc baggage, handling and fuel service etc. Likely to be several hundred pounds
2. As we were on a remote with no ground agents, they would probably be arrested by the the police for being in an RZ without good reason, or ID.
3. If the police didn't get them, the elf and safety security would for not wearing a securly fastened high-visibility jacket!
As it was they did all get off as the company put on buses as the destination remaind closed.
It was pointed out that if they got off
1. They had broken the terms of the general conditions of carriage, (to be taken to their destination) and are liable for any costs incurred. These would include delayed flight costs, ad-hoc baggage, handling and fuel service etc. Likely to be several hundred pounds
2. As we were on a remote with no ground agents, they would probably be arrested by the the police for being in an RZ without good reason, or ID.
3. If the police didn't get them, the elf and safety security would for not wearing a securly fastened high-visibility jacket!
As it was they did all get off as the company put on buses as the destination remaind closed.
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I'm still not aware of any bus company that would let you do so - the local company here run a scheme where ladies can be let off between stops at night for safety reasons (walking home in the dark etc.) but even then it states explicitly it's the driver's call as to where exactly the bus can stop, not the passenger. Most of the time they have a very strict on or off at marked stops only.
I wonder if Australian buses are unlimited hop on-hop off or if they enforce the use of bus stops only?
(And I do agree, the idea of letting someone off on a whim is mad)
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My only problem is that I could not identify Rainboe, 411A ...
folks back to deal with these ahhhh, problems..
Howsomever, I take responsibility, and...have never been questioned.
May it continue...always.
My guy is Harry Truman (for those that din't know..a US President)..who said..."the buck stops HERE."
Harry was RIGHT.
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ANY passenger has the right to be disembarked (should be disemboweled) up to the point of Brakes Release for Takeoff
