direct to Intermediate Fix for straight in approach
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direct to Intermediate Fix for straight in approach
Can ATC in Europe legally clear the aircraft to fly to Intermediate Fix for straight in approach regardless of the weather conditions?
I am wondering if there is any reference about it in JAR-OPS? I would appreciate any help.
I am wondering if there is any reference about it in JAR-OPS? I would appreciate any help.
Warning Toxic!
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Do you want EVERY arrival to do a full procedural ILS? What are you trying to prove? If you have fixed your position, or are under radar vectors, and are aware of terrain, what is wrong with it? I'm curious, why do you ask?
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I'm pretty sure that if the a/c is under ATC control, ATC could clear it ANYWHERE - including 3 mile final. I guess someone from ATC will come up with some actual reg/ procedure for you soon - or even some obscure regulation that says it cannot - who knows? I've had 'all sorts' of 'clearances' in all sorts of places!
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I am talking about situation when aircraft (while being under radar control) is cleared direct to intermediate fix which is in non radar environment.
Once in non radar TMA/CTR we have to report passing certain points, we are no longer under radar supervision. According to JAR regulations we need to start instrument approach procedure from IAP, however there are some new regulations in RAC or FAR which allow to proceed directly to IF and make the straight in approach.
I wonder if there is equivalent regulation in JAR OPS.
Once in non radar TMA/CTR we have to report passing certain points, we are no longer under radar supervision. According to JAR regulations we need to start instrument approach procedure from IAP, however there are some new regulations in RAC or FAR which allow to proceed directly to IF and make the straight in approach.
I wonder if there is equivalent regulation in JAR OPS.
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Like Rainboe and BOAC, I see no problem with it at all.
The only "limitation" would arise from your Company's SOPs which would define the latest point at which the aircraft must be in a Stabilised condition for landing.
Regards,
Old Smokey
The only "limitation" would arise from your Company's SOPs which would define the latest point at which the aircraft must be in a Stabilised condition for landing.
Regards,
Old Smokey
This might be an American TERPS and FAAO 7110.65 (ATC Manual, similar to MATS UK) explanation, but technically when ATC vectors a plane to intercept final, it is replacing the intermediate segment so the plane intercepts final no later than 3 miles outside of the FAF at the intermediate segment altitude or at a position to descend to that altitude at normal descent rates (less than 200 ft/nm).
Long sentence to say ATC can ONLY radar vector a plane to a point outside the FAF, in a position to be configured, intercept the final course ready to start the final. If one is non-radar (procedural ATC), they cannot clear, or vector, one to anywhere EXCEPT to a published IAF for the approach. NO shortcuts authorized.
Be very careful about shortcuts in mountainous terrain!!
GF
Long sentence to say ATC can ONLY radar vector a plane to a point outside the FAF, in a position to be configured, intercept the final course ready to start the final. If one is non-radar (procedural ATC), they cannot clear, or vector, one to anywhere EXCEPT to a published IAF for the approach. NO shortcuts authorized.
Be very careful about shortcuts in mountainous terrain!!
GF
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That explains most of the stuff which confuses me.
One more question. Let say I am already in 25 miles radius from radio fix which is used to calculate MSA, I checked MSA and its below altitude I should intercept IF for straight in approach, so I should be terrain-safe. I am flying RNAV equipped aircraft which can easily guide me to IF without any procedure turns, racetracks, whatsoever.
Can I ask ATC in non-radar environment for permission to make "straight in approach" via IF regardless of meteorological condition?
Or such a shortcut would be legally authorized only if there are conditions required for "visual approach"?
One more question. Let say I am already in 25 miles radius from radio fix which is used to calculate MSA, I checked MSA and its below altitude I should intercept IF for straight in approach, so I should be terrain-safe. I am flying RNAV equipped aircraft which can easily guide me to IF without any procedure turns, racetracks, whatsoever.
Can I ask ATC in non-radar environment for permission to make "straight in approach" via IF regardless of meteorological condition?
Or such a shortcut would be legally authorized only if there are conditions required for "visual approach"?
My interpretation only, if it is a published Initial Fix (IF) or Initial Approach Fix (IAF), yes you can go direct to it and begin the approach, non-radar. However, a TERPS or PANS-OPS expert will say the MSA is not, in all environments an altitude established for normal use, it is an guide for emergency use or in non-normal situations. There are technical reasons like radio service volume.
GF
GF
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MSA is not, in all environments an altitude established for normal use
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Proceed to fix on final...
As an ATC, I'm pretty sure (and safe) about instructing/vectoring an aircraft to proceed to the IF for a straight-in APP, as far as I can also clear him to the IF published altitude. In case of this altitude being lower than my MVA, it would be always "pilot discretion" (if not in contact, totally unable).
In a non-radar TMA/CTR, I guess the same applies. The restriction comes from the minimum safe altitude at where the aircraft starts the procedure (IAF, IF or FAP/FAF). If I, as ATC, can clear the him to any /all of the published altitudes, go straight-in!
So, any shortcut is good as far as they can also be cleared to descent to the point where to join/follow the instrumental procedure.
PD: 3NM on final, is usually too low and to close to the RWY THR.
In a non-radar TMA/CTR, I guess the same applies. The restriction comes from the minimum safe altitude at where the aircraft starts the procedure (IAF, IF or FAP/FAF). If I, as ATC, can clear the him to any /all of the published altitudes, go straight-in!
So, any shortcut is good as far as they can also be cleared to descent to the point where to join/follow the instrumental procedure.
PD: 3NM on final, is usually too low and to close to the RWY THR.
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<<There are technical reasons like radio service volume>>
Not sure what that means??
During early mornings at Heathrow pilots would sometimes ask for "direct to the FAF", particularly on westerlies when they were inbound from the North Sea. We could let them do it for a while but then had to give radar vectors to ensure they complied with the night noise requirement that aircraft had to be established on the localiser at least 10nm from touchdown.
I don't know what happens nowadays but that is presumably still a problem at some airfields.
Not sure what that means??
During early mornings at Heathrow pilots would sometimes ask for "direct to the FAF", particularly on westerlies when they were inbound from the North Sea. We could let them do it for a while but then had to give radar vectors to ensure they complied with the night noise requirement that aircraft had to be established on the localiser at least 10nm from touchdown.
I don't know what happens nowadays but that is presumably still a problem at some airfields.
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<<There are technical reasons like radio service volume>>
Not sure what that means??
I guess he means that the MSA can take into account that below that altitude radio coverage is not guaranteed... I know that for MVA, radar coverage (not only safety separation from ground) is considered...
Not sure what that means??
I guess he means that the MSA can take into account that below that altitude radio coverage is not guaranteed... I know that for MVA, radar coverage (not only safety separation from ground) is considered...
Indeed, Dr, Triax, communication and navigation radio coverage is NOT considered, in TERPS anyway, for the MSA calculations.
HEATHROW DIRECTOR, in FAAO 7110.65, I don't believe a controller can send a plane direct to the FAF with the intention of intercepting final at the FAF; the plane be vectored must be on a vector to intercept final at least 3 nm from the FAF at the minimum altitude for the approach.
GF
HEATHROW DIRECTOR, in FAAO 7110.65, I don't believe a controller can send a plane direct to the FAF with the intention of intercepting final at the FAF; the plane be vectored must be on a vector to intercept final at least 3 nm from the FAF at the minimum altitude for the approach.
GF
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However, I do believe that an RNAV equipped aircraft is able to intercept and successfully complete the IAL when under its' own navigation when intercepting at the FAF. So if on a vector - quite rightly we put the aircraft on the LOC prior to the FAF assigned an altitude that allows GS capture from below and meets the altitude requirements of the sector being flown. If the aircraft is on its own nav - I clear it to the FAF assign it the lowest I can (RLSALT or approach commencement altitude) to meet the foregoing and the wizz bang gear in the aircraft does the rest.
