Enroute Alternate Weather Requirements
Max,
AS BOAC said, here in lies the dilema. I've just had a good look at our rules, and the only specified weather requirements are for Destination Alternates and ETOPS Suitable airports. It is absolutley laid down that there are no weather minima for Adequate airports (alos known as en-rout alternates) and as such, the assumtion is there are none for the en-route fuel alternate.
The way you interpret it, however, does seem to make sense from a EU-Ops perspective, which we are supposed to be compliant with.
I'll do some more reading and maybe drop it in the CFIs lap...
AS BOAC said, here in lies the dilema. I've just had a good look at our rules, and the only specified weather requirements are for Destination Alternates and ETOPS Suitable airports. It is absolutley laid down that there are no weather minima for Adequate airports (alos known as en-rout alternates) and as such, the assumtion is there are none for the en-route fuel alternate.
The way you interpret it, however, does seem to make sense from a EU-Ops perspective, which we are supposed to be compliant with.
I'll do some more reading and maybe drop it in the CFIs lap...
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There's a discrepancy between the regs and OPS manuals regarding the definition of en route alternate. The EU-OPS says it's an airdrome which might be required at the planning stage, very ambiguous in my eyes. AI manual for instance says
, quite better. Regarding planning minimum, it's applicable to all of them including en route alternate, as per EU OPS 1.192
En-route alternates, 3% ERA, destination alternates and isolated destination airport. This is theory in practice you get a folder with actual and forecast weather for a bunch of airdromes along the route to have an idea where to go in case needed. As usual sound airman-ship is required. Hope that helps.
Cheers
En-route alternate: An aerodrome at which an aircraft would be able to land after experiencing an abnormal or emergency condition while en route.
En-route alternates, 3% ERA, destination alternates and isolated destination airport. This is theory in practice you get a folder with actual and forecast weather for a bunch of airdromes along the route to have an idea where to go in case needed. As usual sound airman-ship is required. Hope that helps.
Cheers
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Lots of confusion regarding this...
Would you fly on a NON ETOPS sector during 2 hours with opened airfields, but you can not land there because the weather for all of them are bellow your minimas (Europe case, October due to fog, early morning for few hours), where would you divert in case of an engine fire (one engine 60 minutes Adequate aerodrome)?
1st thing 1st, there is NO OFFICIAL definition of a SUITABLE Airport/aerodrome, only ADEQUATE Aerodrome
CAT-OPS ANNEX I
Definitions for terms used in Annexes II to V
(4) ‘adequate aerodrome’ means an aerodrome on which the aircraft can be operated, taking account of the applicable performance requirements and runway characteristics;
(43) ‘en-route alternate (ERA) aerodrome’ means an adequate aerodrome along the route, which may be required at the planning stage;
(48) ‘fuel ERA aerodrome’ means an ERA aerodrome selected for the purpose of reducing contingency fuel;
CAT.OP.MPA.107 Adequate aerodrome
The operator shall consider an aerodrome as adequate if, at the expected time of use, the aerodrome is available and equipped with necessary ancillary services such as air traffic services (ATS), sufficient lighting, communications, weather reporting, navigation aids and emergency services.
CAT.OP.MPA.140 Maximum distance from an adequate aerodrome for two-engined aeroplanes without an ETOPS approval
(a) Unless approved by the competent authority in accordance with Annex V (Part-SPA), Subpart F, the operator shall not operate a two-engined aeroplane over a route that contains a point further from an adequate aerodrome, under standard conditions in still air, than:
(1) for performance class A aeroplanes with either:
(i) a maximum operational passenger seating configuration (MOPSC) of 20 or more; or
(ii) a maximum take-off mass of 45 360 kg or more,
the distance flown in 60 minutes at the one-engine-inoperative (OEI) cruising speed determined in accordance with (b);
CAT.OP.MPA.185 Planning minima for IFR flights — aeroplanes
(a) Planning minima for a take-off alternate aerodrome
The operator shall only select an aerodrome as a take-off alternate aerodrome when the appropriate weather reports and/or forecasts indicate that, during a period commencing one hour before and ending one hour after the estimated time of arrival at the aerodrome, the weather conditions will be at or above the applicable landing minima specified in accordance with CAT.OP.MPA.110. The ceiling shall be taken into account when the only approach operations available are non-precision approaches (NPA) and/or circling operations. Any limitation related to OEI operations shall be taken into account.
(b) Planning minima for a destination aerodrome other than an isolated destination aerodrome
The operator shall only select the destination aerodrome when:
(1) the appropriate weather reports and/or forecasts indicate that, during a period commencing one hour before and ending one hour after the estimated time of arrival at the aerodrome, the weather conditions will be at or above the applicable planning minima as follows:
(i) RVR/visibility (VIS) specified in accordance with CAT.OP.MPA.110; and
(ii) for an NPA or a circling operation, the ceiling at or above MDH;
or
(2) two destination alternate aerodromes are selected.
(c) Planning minima for a destination alternate aerodrome, isolated aerodrome, fuel en-route alternate (fuel ERA) aerodrome, en-route alternate (ERA) aerodrome
The operator shall only select an aerodrome for one of these purposes when the appropriate weather reports and/or forecasts indicate that, during a period commencing one hour before and ending one hour after the estimated time of arrival at the aerodrome, the weather conditions will be at or above the planning minima in Table 1.
SPA.ETOPS.110 ETOPS en-route alternate aerodrome
(a) An ETOPS en-route alternate aerodrome shall be considered adequate, if, at the expected time of use, the aerodrome is available and equipped with necessary ancillary services such as air traffic services (ATS), sufficient lighting, communications, weather reporting, navigation aids and emergency services and has at least one instrument approach procedure available.
(b) Prior to conducting an ETOPS flight, the operator shall ensure that an ETOPS en-route alternate aerodrome is available, within either the operator’s approved diversion time, or a diversion time based on the MEL generated serviceability status of the aeroplane, whichever is shorter.
(c) The operator shall specify any required ETOPS en-route alternate aerodrome(s) in the operational flight plan and ATS flight plan.
SPA.ETOPS.115 ETOPS en-route alternate aerodrome planning minima
(a) The operator shall only select an aerodrome as an ETOPS en-route alternate aerodrome when the appropriate weather reports or forecasts, or any combination thereof, indicate that, between the anticipated time of landing until one hour after the latest possible time of landing, conditions will exist at or above the planning minima calculated by adding the additional limits of Table 1.
(b) The operator shall include in the operations manual the method for determining the operating minima at the planned ETOPS en-route alternate aerodrome.
Would you fly on a NON ETOPS sector during 2 hours with opened airfields, but you can not land there because the weather for all of them are bellow your minimas (Europe case, October due to fog, early morning for few hours), where would you divert in case of an engine fire (one engine 60 minutes Adequate aerodrome)?
1st thing 1st, there is NO OFFICIAL definition of a SUITABLE Airport/aerodrome, only ADEQUATE Aerodrome
CAT-OPS ANNEX I
Definitions for terms used in Annexes II to V
(4) ‘adequate aerodrome’ means an aerodrome on which the aircraft can be operated, taking account of the applicable performance requirements and runway characteristics;
(43) ‘en-route alternate (ERA) aerodrome’ means an adequate aerodrome along the route, which may be required at the planning stage;
(48) ‘fuel ERA aerodrome’ means an ERA aerodrome selected for the purpose of reducing contingency fuel;
CAT.OP.MPA.107 Adequate aerodrome
The operator shall consider an aerodrome as adequate if, at the expected time of use, the aerodrome is available and equipped with necessary ancillary services such as air traffic services (ATS), sufficient lighting, communications, weather reporting, navigation aids and emergency services.
CAT.OP.MPA.140 Maximum distance from an adequate aerodrome for two-engined aeroplanes without an ETOPS approval
(a) Unless approved by the competent authority in accordance with Annex V (Part-SPA), Subpart F, the operator shall not operate a two-engined aeroplane over a route that contains a point further from an adequate aerodrome, under standard conditions in still air, than:
(1) for performance class A aeroplanes with either:
(i) a maximum operational passenger seating configuration (MOPSC) of 20 or more; or
(ii) a maximum take-off mass of 45 360 kg or more,
the distance flown in 60 minutes at the one-engine-inoperative (OEI) cruising speed determined in accordance with (b);
CAT.OP.MPA.185 Planning minima for IFR flights — aeroplanes
(a) Planning minima for a take-off alternate aerodrome
The operator shall only select an aerodrome as a take-off alternate aerodrome when the appropriate weather reports and/or forecasts indicate that, during a period commencing one hour before and ending one hour after the estimated time of arrival at the aerodrome, the weather conditions will be at or above the applicable landing minima specified in accordance with CAT.OP.MPA.110. The ceiling shall be taken into account when the only approach operations available are non-precision approaches (NPA) and/or circling operations. Any limitation related to OEI operations shall be taken into account.
(b) Planning minima for a destination aerodrome other than an isolated destination aerodrome
The operator shall only select the destination aerodrome when:
(1) the appropriate weather reports and/or forecasts indicate that, during a period commencing one hour before and ending one hour after the estimated time of arrival at the aerodrome, the weather conditions will be at or above the applicable planning minima as follows:
(i) RVR/visibility (VIS) specified in accordance with CAT.OP.MPA.110; and
(ii) for an NPA or a circling operation, the ceiling at or above MDH;
or
(2) two destination alternate aerodromes are selected.
(c) Planning minima for a destination alternate aerodrome, isolated aerodrome, fuel en-route alternate (fuel ERA) aerodrome, en-route alternate (ERA) aerodrome
The operator shall only select an aerodrome for one of these purposes when the appropriate weather reports and/or forecasts indicate that, during a period commencing one hour before and ending one hour after the estimated time of arrival at the aerodrome, the weather conditions will be at or above the planning minima in Table 1.
SPA.ETOPS.110 ETOPS en-route alternate aerodrome
(a) An ETOPS en-route alternate aerodrome shall be considered adequate, if, at the expected time of use, the aerodrome is available and equipped with necessary ancillary services such as air traffic services (ATS), sufficient lighting, communications, weather reporting, navigation aids and emergency services and has at least one instrument approach procedure available.
(b) Prior to conducting an ETOPS flight, the operator shall ensure that an ETOPS en-route alternate aerodrome is available, within either the operator’s approved diversion time, or a diversion time based on the MEL generated serviceability status of the aeroplane, whichever is shorter.
(c) The operator shall specify any required ETOPS en-route alternate aerodrome(s) in the operational flight plan and ATS flight plan.
SPA.ETOPS.115 ETOPS en-route alternate aerodrome planning minima
(a) The operator shall only select an aerodrome as an ETOPS en-route alternate aerodrome when the appropriate weather reports or forecasts, or any combination thereof, indicate that, between the anticipated time of landing until one hour after the latest possible time of landing, conditions will exist at or above the planning minima calculated by adding the additional limits of Table 1.
(b) The operator shall include in the operations manual the method for determining the operating minima at the planned ETOPS en-route alternate aerodrome.
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flywildcamel, there used to be a "suitable aerodrome" definition, as this is a 4 year old thread, but at least in EU-OPS the "suitable aerodrome" definition has been removed.
I believe the original poster was asking from a regulatory perspective not company regulations as many have posted in the past. So as here below from EU-OPS 1.192:
(a) Adequate Aerodrome. An aerodrome which the operator considers to be satisfactory, taking account of the applicable
performance requirements and runway characteristics; at the expected time of use, the aerodrome will be available and
equipped with necessary ancillary services such as ATS, sufficient lighting, communications, weather reporting, navaids
and emergency services.
No weather minima is required for the 60min distance adequate aerodrome, only the above.
Then for the enroute alternates also from EU-OPS 1.192:
(c) Adequate ETOPS en-route alternate aerodrome. An adequate aerodrome, which additionally, at the expected time of
use, has an ATS facility and at least one instrument approach procedure.
(d) En-route alternate (ERA) aerodrome. An adequate aerodrome along the route, which may be required at the planning
stage.
(e) 3 % ERA. An en-route alternate aerodrome selected for the purposes of reducing contingency fuel to 3 %.
So enroute alternate is a completely different thing then the adequate aerodrome. For all of these there is of course a weather minima requirement, e.g. the "one step up".
Then for the ETOPS adequate alternate weather planning minima is a bit different:
For a Precision approach CAT I, add a 200feet to authorized DA/DH (only from CAT I, CAT II/III not to be considered) and add 800m to the authorized visibility.
For a non-precision or a circling approach, add 400feet to the authorized MDA/MDH and add 1500m to the authorized visibility.
I believe the original poster was asking from a regulatory perspective not company regulations as many have posted in the past. So as here below from EU-OPS 1.192:
(a) Adequate Aerodrome. An aerodrome which the operator considers to be satisfactory, taking account of the applicable
performance requirements and runway characteristics; at the expected time of use, the aerodrome will be available and
equipped with necessary ancillary services such as ATS, sufficient lighting, communications, weather reporting, navaids
and emergency services.
No weather minima is required for the 60min distance adequate aerodrome, only the above.
Then for the enroute alternates also from EU-OPS 1.192:
(c) Adequate ETOPS en-route alternate aerodrome. An adequate aerodrome, which additionally, at the expected time of
use, has an ATS facility and at least one instrument approach procedure.
(d) En-route alternate (ERA) aerodrome. An adequate aerodrome along the route, which may be required at the planning
stage.
(e) 3 % ERA. An en-route alternate aerodrome selected for the purposes of reducing contingency fuel to 3 %.
So enroute alternate is a completely different thing then the adequate aerodrome. For all of these there is of course a weather minima requirement, e.g. the "one step up".
Then for the ETOPS adequate alternate weather planning minima is a bit different:
For a Precision approach CAT I, add a 200feet to authorized DA/DH (only from CAT I, CAT II/III not to be considered) and add 800m to the authorized visibility.
For a non-precision or a circling approach, add 400feet to the authorized MDA/MDH and add 1500m to the authorized visibility.
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I have checked the previous edition of the EU-OPS, and the one before that... still no definition of Suitable Airport...
Then, as you mentioned the EU-OPS 1.192, it makes reference to c/ En-Route Aternate (ERA) and d/ 3%ERA...
What is for you, at the planning stage a C/ EN-ROUTE ALTERNATE ?considering that it is a part of the IFR planning stage, NON ETOPS...
cf definition: en-route alternate (ERA) aerodrome’ means an adequate aerodrome along the route, which may be required at the planning stage;
Then, as you mentioned the EU-OPS 1.192, it makes reference to c/ En-Route Aternate (ERA) and d/ 3%ERA...
What is for you, at the planning stage a C/ EN-ROUTE ALTERNATE ?considering that it is a part of the IFR planning stage, NON ETOPS...
cf definition: en-route alternate (ERA) aerodrome’ means an adequate aerodrome along the route, which may be required at the planning stage;
We (a major EU carrier) are currently discussing this anomaly as at the moment we only specify "adequate" aerodromes when dispatched non-ETOPS (60min). It always struck me as odd that we flew ETOPS until the weather worsened to the point where ETOPS alternates (what we still call "suitable") were unavailable, then we just blasted off using 60mins, irrespective of the conditions.
I do admit to being a bit uncomfortable going to/from Japan/China/Korea over Russia in the winter with miles and miles of airfields giving 100M BLSN VV000. If you need to divert, you could probably find *somewhere* within a couple of hours that you could use operationally but it will have been below forecast minima for ETOPS. You end up doing a non-ETOPS sector knowing full well that you will be >>1hr from anywhere sensible for much of the route, which seems somewhat of a loophole in the whole intent of long-range ops.
I do admit to being a bit uncomfortable going to/from Japan/China/Korea over Russia in the winter with miles and miles of airfields giving 100M BLSN VV000. If you need to divert, you could probably find *somewhere* within a couple of hours that you could use operationally but it will have been below forecast minima for ETOPS. You end up doing a non-ETOPS sector knowing full well that you will be >>1hr from anywhere sensible for much of the route, which seems somewhat of a loophole in the whole intent of long-range ops.
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DILEMMA
Wiz,
Ive got a similar background to you, training etc, and im guessing you are with EK now? Anyway you are quite wrong on this subject.In my 39 years of aviating 35 of them on jets, it has ALWAYS been the same.Required by regulation(ENZED ALL OVER ASIA also in ME) and thus appearing in airline FOMs everywhere, on a NON-ETOPS flight the crew must NOMINATE their en-route alternates on the day (write their names on the CFP) and compare the forecast to the PLANNING MINIMA TABLE we all know so well.Once Airborne actual minima apply as usual.If this is not the way you do it then UAE must be on another planet to mine.Thats their choice I guess.
Ive got a similar background to you, training etc, and im guessing you are with EK now? Anyway you are quite wrong on this subject.In my 39 years of aviating 35 of them on jets, it has ALWAYS been the same.Required by regulation(ENZED ALL OVER ASIA also in ME) and thus appearing in airline FOMs everywhere, on a NON-ETOPS flight the crew must NOMINATE their en-route alternates on the day (write their names on the CFP) and compare the forecast to the PLANNING MINIMA TABLE we all know so well.Once Airborne actual minima apply as usual.If this is not the way you do it then UAE must be on another planet to mine.Thats their choice I guess.
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ERAs are required for some non-etops flights.
CAT.OP.MPA 40 for baby jets 19 seats and less than 45360. They can go to 120 minutes with adequate but can also get approval to go to 180 minutes but then must have ERA i.e. adequate plus weather. IT isn't ETOPS but the requirements are similar.
Also for Isolated airport ops.
CAT.OP.MPA 40 for baby jets 19 seats and less than 45360. They can go to 120 minutes with adequate but can also get approval to go to 180 minutes but then must have ERA i.e. adequate plus weather. IT isn't ETOPS but the requirements are similar.
Also for Isolated airport ops.
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Non ETOPS flights by EU regs need ADEQUATE airports which do NOT require suitable WX.
It is up to the PIC and or Company to address the issue by adding EXTRA fuel or by implementing strict rules for adequate airports via SOPs.
It is up to the PIC and or Company to address the issue by adding EXTRA fuel or by implementing strict rules for adequate airports via SOPs.
It is up to the PIC and or Company to address the issue by adding EXTRA fuel or by implementing strict rules for adequate airports via SOPs.
Over Russia/China in the winter, you could be really scraping the bottom of the barrel sometimes to get proper ETOPS alternates, should the 60min criteria be changed as above. Maybe EU operators are aware of this and are happier with the status quo...?
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EURO-CENTRIC
Im afraid the world does not begin or end in europe, even USA for that matter! Certainly not in the M.E. or Emirates.For many decades now, many many of us have been flying around the planet in our twins by FIRST consulting our NON-ETOPS weather-planning table and comparing this to the forecast for our NOMINATED ENROUTE ALTERNATES.I do not understand how you can simply suggest that this is not required.Unless you operate to a lower standard than most of us, ie no planning minima necessary.This requirement, and the TABLE have been a routine requirement for twins since I started aviating on a 737-200 back in 1978......It has nothing at all to do with fuel requirements either.Assumimg that your flight is longer than 2 hours at nominal single engine speed (and thus distance).Pete.
...many many of us have been flying around the planet in our twins by FIRST consulting our NON-ETOPS weather-planning table and comparing this to the forecast for our NOMINATED ENROUTE ALTERNATES.
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THE WORLD
I rest my case.The EU is a very very small but interesting part of the planet.Its a big world out here.The majority of regulators including ICAO require you to apply PLANNING MINIMA, a good idea by the way, before you even go to your 737, 757, 767 777 320 etc etc......why is this so hard for you Euros to accept? I dont get it.
why is this so hard for you Euros to accept? I dont get it.
