Security regime-how to fight back the nonsense by legitimate means?
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Security regime-how to fight back the nonsense by legitimate means?
Hi guys, I started this thread, because I felt I need to move out of Pablo Masson thread, which is about Pablo Masson trial.
I want to hear your opinions on, if it is at all possible to have an influence and harness the nonsense of the security regime, which started after the 9-11. I am aware, that some of its rules were necessary. Like tightening the security, so nobody can bring a knife to an airplane.
But some of it seems to be a nonsense.
For example, we are not allowed to bring a family to the flight deck. As far as I know, there has never been a terrorist act, which happened because somebody brought a family member or a friend to the flight deck. Of course, there was the Russian crew, which allowed a kid to fly the airplane, but I would put it on account of stupidity, not terrorism. That there was the Memphis incident, but that was a crew member turned a terrorist.
Why I think, that it is important to allow family members back to flight decks:
There is many longhaul guys, who would like to share the cockpit with their family, so they would not be alone for 20 days out of a month. That could prevent some divorces and could allow for experienced crew to continue longhauls as opposed to getting out of it due to family pressures. Especially that there is no known terrorist threat to bring a family member to a flightdeck.
The security regime seems to be the strongest in the UK. They won’t even allow crew to take water to the flightdeck. Are we supposed to fly dehydrated just because some plot, that, according to experts did not have chance to work out? Could not a crew be allowed to bring a water with them?
Are we not allowed in democracy to fight stupidity? Is it just something what we can do only if we live under regimes? How do we recognize, that something is not turning into a regime? Do the regimes in the world usually announce: “We are a regime” or is it our responsibility to watch that a regime does not grow big in front of our eyes?
There is many of you guys, who are very smart and may be some of you have the powers to influence this lucrative regime stupidity. Would you care to comment?
Thanks!
I want to hear your opinions on, if it is at all possible to have an influence and harness the nonsense of the security regime, which started after the 9-11. I am aware, that some of its rules were necessary. Like tightening the security, so nobody can bring a knife to an airplane.
But some of it seems to be a nonsense.
For example, we are not allowed to bring a family to the flight deck. As far as I know, there has never been a terrorist act, which happened because somebody brought a family member or a friend to the flight deck. Of course, there was the Russian crew, which allowed a kid to fly the airplane, but I would put it on account of stupidity, not terrorism. That there was the Memphis incident, but that was a crew member turned a terrorist.
Why I think, that it is important to allow family members back to flight decks:
There is many longhaul guys, who would like to share the cockpit with their family, so they would not be alone for 20 days out of a month. That could prevent some divorces and could allow for experienced crew to continue longhauls as opposed to getting out of it due to family pressures. Especially that there is no known terrorist threat to bring a family member to a flightdeck.
The security regime seems to be the strongest in the UK. They won’t even allow crew to take water to the flightdeck. Are we supposed to fly dehydrated just because some plot, that, according to experts did not have chance to work out? Could not a crew be allowed to bring a water with them?
Are we not allowed in democracy to fight stupidity? Is it just something what we can do only if we live under regimes? How do we recognize, that something is not turning into a regime? Do the regimes in the world usually announce: “We are a regime” or is it our responsibility to watch that a regime does not grow big in front of our eyes?
There is many of you guys, who are very smart and may be some of you have the powers to influence this lucrative regime stupidity. Would you care to comment?
Thanks!
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But some of it seems to be a nonsense.
For example, we are not allowed to bring a family to the flight deck.
For example, we are not allowed to bring a family to the flight deck.
The UK needs a (peaceful) revolution now. Trouble is apathy rules and the majority are quite happy to bumble through life and never ever have an original thought. Perhaps as the recession bites, people will become more restless but I am not that hopeful.
I don't claim to be a historian but ask yourself when the people last stood up to the government in England? I suggest it was Oliver Cromwell and even his success was limited. On the other hand, for example, France and Spain have had revolutions in the relatively recent past. Even now the French people are not slow to protest when their government does things which are not to their liking.
I read that British citizens will probably have to apply for permission to travel abroad! A letter in today's Telegraph points out that former Eastern bloc states used to be eager to welcome tourists with foreign currency, whilst their own citizens could only travel abroad in a bus accompanied by a KGB agent.
I agree that enough is enough and I think all should be very concerned about what the government is doing in the interests of so called "security".
I don't claim to be a historian but ask yourself when the people last stood up to the government in England? I suggest it was Oliver Cromwell and even his success was limited. On the other hand, for example, France and Spain have had revolutions in the relatively recent past. Even now the French people are not slow to protest when their government does things which are not to their liking.
I read that British citizens will probably have to apply for permission to travel abroad! A letter in today's Telegraph points out that former Eastern bloc states used to be eager to welcome tourists with foreign currency, whilst their own citizens could only travel abroad in a bus accompanied by a KGB agent.
I agree that enough is enough and I think all should be very concerned about what the government is doing in the interests of so called "security".
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Hi guys, thanks for your answers. I am just thinking, that we, as pilots, need to establish somehow as a group, to be able to lobby the government on security issues. They seem to completely take us out of the decision making in this area. I am not sure, how that can be done. May be, the situation has to get worse, before we will be interested in that.
By the way, another genious idea by London security is the one bag policy. Are most terrorist caring 2 bags around and that's why we can have only one? What is behind it? Sometimes I have 2 bags and I am told to take everything from the second bag and hold it in my hand untill I pass security. But I have not seen this stupidity anywhere else except London airports.
By the way, another genious idea by London security is the one bag policy. Are most terrorist caring 2 bags around and that's why we can have only one? What is behind it? Sometimes I have 2 bags and I am told to take everything from the second bag and hold it in my hand untill I pass security. But I have not seen this stupidity anywhere else except London airports.
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By all means organize a group to lobby for humane security regulations, but if you don't go for something achievable it will be a complete waste of time. Asking for preferential treatment for F/C isn't going to be popular with other people and their support is necessary to change things in this world. Your best bet might be to lobby for sensible security for everyone.
But to address two specific issues you raised:
1. Flight crew are subject to security not because they are a risk themselves but because waving someone through because they have stripes on their arm opens a breach anyone can exploit. Google "Frank Abagnale jr" if you are too young to remember this case. Up at the decision level the fear is that someone rents a captains outfit at a party shop and uses that to get past security. For this reason the best you can hope for is more respect from low level employees.
2. Family members in the cockpit are clearly not a security risk in the english sense but the tabloid reading public perceives any distraction as a hazard. Maybe the memory of flight 1141 is fading, but since the majority of people don't want any risk there is no way of getting popular support for this one. Lots of people are not allowed to take their family to work so why should F/C be exempted?
But to address two specific issues you raised:
1. Flight crew are subject to security not because they are a risk themselves but because waving someone through because they have stripes on their arm opens a breach anyone can exploit. Google "Frank Abagnale jr" if you are too young to remember this case. Up at the decision level the fear is that someone rents a captains outfit at a party shop and uses that to get past security. For this reason the best you can hope for is more respect from low level employees.
2. Family members in the cockpit are clearly not a security risk in the english sense but the tabloid reading public perceives any distraction as a hazard. Maybe the memory of flight 1141 is fading, but since the majority of people don't want any risk there is no way of getting popular support for this one. Lots of people are not allowed to take their family to work so why should F/C be exempted?
