Will I lose my UK ATPL if I'm not currently flying in Europe?
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Will I lose my UK ATPL if I'm not currently flying in Europe?
I'm an expat pom flying a Dash 8 in New Zealand, and have a UK ATPL (the only ratings are SE Piston (land), ME Piston (land) and instrument), which expired in June 2007 . I'm heading home for a holiday in April and am wondering whether I should renew it whilst I'm there?
At the moment I've no plans to fly there but I want to keep my options open. If I don't renew it now, will it be a big deal to renew it when/if I get offered a job back there in the future (possibly up to 10 years from now)? Will I just need a Class 1 medical and either transfer my type over from my NZ ATPL, or get the necessary rating/revalidation whatever whilst doing sim training for a new company?
I've searched Prune.
I've read the LASORS.
I've contacted FCLWEB.
My brain is full and I am no clearer.
Thanks
At the moment I've no plans to fly there but I want to keep my options open. If I don't renew it now, will it be a big deal to renew it when/if I get offered a job back there in the future (possibly up to 10 years from now)? Will I just need a Class 1 medical and either transfer my type over from my NZ ATPL, or get the necessary rating/revalidation whatever whilst doing sim training for a new company?
I've searched Prune.
I've read the LASORS.
I've contacted FCLWEB.
My brain is full and I am no clearer.
Thanks
Hi, I'm an expat Pom too, but in Asia. My HK licence is validated from my UK ATPL. If my UK licences expires, it will severely limit my options for work. Not just because I may one day wish to return to the lannd of cold drizzle and high taxes (unlikely) but alo because If I decide to go and work in a third country, I will probably find that the third country will not validate a licence which was validated from my original. It appears most rating authorities will only give you a licence based on your original ATPL.
If your Kiwi ATPL is validated from your UK one, then the answer is a definate YES! Also, another thing to consider is that if your UK ATPL is just that, one of the original UK licences and not a JAA licence, then if it expires, the UK CAA will require you to get a JAA licence, which will incur lots of expense and probably an exam or two!
The fact it expired in 2007 shouldn't be a problem. If you have a rating within the last 5 years, then you can just do another one and get the licence renewed. Outside five years, your ratings and licences will be deemed to have expired for good. (I think, but check with LASORs)
If your Kiwi ATPL is validated from your UK one, then the answer is a definate YES! Also, another thing to consider is that if your UK ATPL is just that, one of the original UK licences and not a JAA licence, then if it expires, the UK CAA will require you to get a JAA licence, which will incur lots of expense and probably an exam or two!
The fact it expired in 2007 shouldn't be a problem. If you have a rating within the last 5 years, then you can just do another one and get the licence renewed. Outside five years, your ratings and licences will be deemed to have expired for good. (I think, but check with LASORs)
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It's all much less of a problem in FAA-land.
Type ratings (indeed licenses) never expire but all good indefinitely, just recurrent training and a type check is all that is required, then fly as desired.
FAA...got it right.
Many others...pilots get s@rewed.
EASA...it will only get worse, make no mistake.
Type ratings (indeed licenses) never expire but all good indefinitely, just recurrent training and a type check is all that is required, then fly as desired.
FAA...got it right.
Many others...pilots get s@rewed.
EASA...it will only get worse, make no mistake.
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CC,
tricky question, best advice is to probably phone the CAA direct and demand to speak to someone in policy on this. pprune is notoriously inaccurate.
i'm always willing to have a stab. if i understand youre question correctly, your UK ATPL and IR have lapsed.
if you are thinking of renewing your IR when you are back home, then problem lies (methinks) with the when your IR lapsed. if it's over 7 years since it expired, then i'm afraid that the theory side of your IR also lapses. you will need to resit the IR theory (9 exams) as well as resit the IR test. if it's less than 7 years then you need training as required and a skills test.
nowadays, anyone with a UK ATPL has had that converted to a JAR ATPL. the standard JAR ATPL is only valid for five years and renewable by paying a fee to the CAA. so i think you can just exchange your old UK ATPL (which never expires) to a JAR ATPL. i maybe right in thinking that you need an IR for an ATPL to be issued, not sure, best check with Gatwick.
however, the good news is that if in the future you see the error of your antipodean ways and decide to head back home, assuming you have a ICAO ATPL and over 500 hours on a type, by doing the type rating (again) in JAR-land, will give you a JAR ATPL on the back of your ICAO ATPL. details of this are in lasors, but again, i suggest you speak to Gatwick rather than listen to my ramblings.
tricky question, best advice is to probably phone the CAA direct and demand to speak to someone in policy on this. pprune is notoriously inaccurate.
i'm always willing to have a stab. if i understand youre question correctly, your UK ATPL and IR have lapsed.
if you are thinking of renewing your IR when you are back home, then problem lies (methinks) with the when your IR lapsed. if it's over 7 years since it expired, then i'm afraid that the theory side of your IR also lapses. you will need to resit the IR theory (9 exams) as well as resit the IR test. if it's less than 7 years then you need training as required and a skills test.
nowadays, anyone with a UK ATPL has had that converted to a JAR ATPL. the standard JAR ATPL is only valid for five years and renewable by paying a fee to the CAA. so i think you can just exchange your old UK ATPL (which never expires) to a JAR ATPL. i maybe right in thinking that you need an IR for an ATPL to be issued, not sure, best check with Gatwick.
however, the good news is that if in the future you see the error of your antipodean ways and decide to head back home, assuming you have a ICAO ATPL and over 500 hours on a type, by doing the type rating (again) in JAR-land, will give you a JAR ATPL on the back of your ICAO ATPL. details of this are in lasors, but again, i suggest you speak to Gatwick rather than listen to my ramblings.
Quote: "so i think you can just exchange your old UK ATPL (which never expires) to a JAR ATPL."
This is not correct. UK ATPLs had a 10 year validity, but this changed to five years in 1999 in line with JAA ATPLs, so no 10 year UK ATPLs will be in existance from thes year. It is correct to say that it can be exchaged for a JAA ATPL, but not without some pain and expense.
As for renewing the IR, if you have a current type and IR on your present licence, you should be able to renew your ATPL with a type rating. You would have to do an LPC/IR on the Dash 8 in a JAA sim with a JAA approved TIRE. This would probably be far more cost effective than forking out for another MEP rating with a SP IR.
But this type of renewal is done on a case by case basis, so you will have to get in touch with the CAA. But I'm sure they won't have a problem with your kiwi ATPL.
This is not correct. UK ATPLs had a 10 year validity, but this changed to five years in 1999 in line with JAA ATPLs, so no 10 year UK ATPLs will be in existance from thes year. It is correct to say that it can be exchaged for a JAA ATPL, but not without some pain and expense.
As for renewing the IR, if you have a current type and IR on your present licence, you should be able to renew your ATPL with a type rating. You would have to do an LPC/IR on the Dash 8 in a JAA sim with a JAA approved TIRE. This would probably be far more cost effective than forking out for another MEP rating with a SP IR.
But this type of renewal is done on a case by case basis, so you will have to get in touch with the CAA. But I'm sure they won't have a problem with your kiwi ATPL.
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As a UK expat I had your problem.
After one expensive trip to Gatwick and sight of the civil servants there and the hassle and bull**** and expense they were capable of dreaming up I decided on the spot to remain an expat until retirement and avoid CAA Gatwick evermore.
My FAA ATR being increaseingly acceptable worldwide having got a UK ATPL issued I then let it immediately lapse.
After one expensive trip to Gatwick and sight of the civil servants there and the hassle and bull**** and expense they were capable of dreaming up I decided on the spot to remain an expat until retirement and avoid CAA Gatwick evermore.
My FAA ATR being increaseingly acceptable worldwide having got a UK ATPL issued I then let it immediately lapse.
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I think you need to be very carefuk with this one and contact the CAA/LGW for advice, preferably in writing.
For me, and as I remember it, the following happened.
I had a British ATPL and, while on walkabout in the world, I allowed the Instrument rating to go from its day of expiration, for nearly five years. The UK CAA told me, as I remember, that if I allowed the IR to lapse without the renewing of it for a period of five years from the expiration of that rating, that I would have to rewrite all the subjects again. I therefore renewed the IR on a twin simulator at Bournemouth.
My JAR/ATPL is valid for five years but, naturally perhaps, my Instrument Rating, in that licence anyhow, is not current.
Anyhow, if you are current and up to speed, it is not going to be the big thing to do a medical in the UK and a sim check ride for renewal?
For me, and as I remember it, the following happened.
I had a British ATPL and, while on walkabout in the world, I allowed the Instrument rating to go from its day of expiration, for nearly five years. The UK CAA told me, as I remember, that if I allowed the IR to lapse without the renewing of it for a period of five years from the expiration of that rating, that I would have to rewrite all the subjects again. I therefore renewed the IR on a twin simulator at Bournemouth.
My JAR/ATPL is valid for five years but, naturally perhaps, my Instrument Rating, in that licence anyhow, is not current.
Anyhow, if you are current and up to speed, it is not going to be the big thing to do a medical in the UK and a sim check ride for renewal?
I would suggest that you take all of your licences and your logbooks in person to the CAA in the Belgrano at Gatwick. Keep a smile on your face
I have been to FCL (Flight Crew Licensing) many times over the last ten years and each time, it has been a pleasure compared with the bad old days when they were in Kingsway. Each time, the problem was sorted in quick time but I was never allowed out of the building without parting with money!
For example, when I was flying DC-10s in the USA, I went in to see them from time to time and my UK qualifications were renewed without murmur on the basis of my logbooks and paperwork.
Incidentally, next time you are in the US of A, it is worth getting a proper FAA ATR (ATPL). It is the easiest licence that I have ever obtained (outside of Africa) and could possibly be useful somewhere, sometime.
I have been to FCL (Flight Crew Licensing) many times over the last ten years and each time, it has been a pleasure compared with the bad old days when they were in Kingsway. Each time, the problem was sorted in quick time but I was never allowed out of the building without parting with money!
For example, when I was flying DC-10s in the USA, I went in to see them from time to time and my UK qualifications were renewed without murmur on the basis of my logbooks and paperwork.
Incidentally, next time you are in the US of A, it is worth getting a proper FAA ATR (ATPL). It is the easiest licence that I have ever obtained (outside of Africa) and could possibly be useful somewhere, sometime.
Last edited by JW411; 9th Mar 2009 at 19:55.
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Last time I ventured through the CAA portals in Gatwick, I was recommended by the lady to take out my laptop and search their website.
I got the feeling that I might have to pay something for personal advice on my case.
Some personal advice was eventually given free of charge and with a limited smile, but I still felt like a beggar.Perhaps the staff labour under strict rules when giving advice about how to keep the licence going.
I got the feeling that I might have to pay something for personal advice on my case.
Some personal advice was eventually given free of charge and with a limited smile, but I still felt like a beggar.Perhaps the staff labour under strict rules when giving advice about how to keep the licence going.
