Only Captains handle throttles during T/O??

[Max Angle]

If you saw the way BA copilots are trained,

Oh please, fetch me a bucket!.

You didn't answer the question, is the Captain relieved of responsibility for the RTO manoeuvre or is he expected to confirm the decision before the FO closes the thrust levers and starts the reject?. If the former, how does that fit in with the ANO and the Commanders legal responsibilities and if the latter why bother having the FO do it in the first place.

[GlueBall]

BA's superb safety record is evidence that if you are looking for any holes in the operation of jets, then your energies would be better directed to other places!

"No holes in the operations of jets" at BA, sir, [knock on wood], but there are some questionable issues of BA operational judgements, especially that of operating a B744 revenue flight on three engines from LAX to MAN. . . .

But without intent of initiating thread creep, it is common knowledge that at most carriers, the RTO decision is the commander's.

[BOAC]

Not forgetting that it IS possible for BA to make a mistake - like when the lady co called STOP instead of rotate - and of course, they stopped - IAW SOPs.

[Carnage Matey!]

BOAC - I think you'll find it was a male captain who called stop instead of rotate. Made a nice mess of wheels as I recall.

GlueBall - Perhaps you'd like to direct us to either an NTSB or AAIB report (or indeed any commentary from Boeing) which concludes the crew of the LAX flight were incorrect in continuing the flight? I won't be holding my breath whilst you try to find one.

[BOAC]

CM - I do believe you are right - I got that the wrong way round - sorry. Puts another interesting slant on the original question though! Would the Captain have stopped if he had called STOP incorrectly? I think my head hurts.....................

Actually I don't think the wheels were 'messed', were they, there was just an 'error of judgement' if I recall?

[Carnage Matey!]

I think they had to fly the replacement 'error of judgement' out in the hold of a 777.

[BOAC]

Must be another one, then, 'cos I'm sure they got airborne again.

[Max Angle]

but the decision is really only one person's, the HP.

So the Captain is the commander for the whole flight except the most critical phase of the whole operation. Nice one BA, really makes sense.


PS. All this I know already, it's been covered loads of time on pprune. I just like stirring it up about what IMHO is a pretty stupid way to operate and one that is out of sync with just about all other operators AND the recommendations of both Boeing and Airbus, ho hum, guess BA know best.

[Carnage Matey!]

Boeing and Airbus recommend what's simple and design it for the lowest common denominator. There aren't many lowest common denominator airlines in the UK. If the manufacturers raise no technical objection to a variation from their SOPs then what's the beef? BA have shown it works perfectly well and the only two screwed up RTOs I personally know of in BA were both inititiated by the captain.

Incidentally, if you are heads in on the T/O roll and the handling FO spots an imminent runway incursion ahead of you would you prefer him to shout "stop" or try to explain what he's seen so you can make the decision?

[AKAFresh]

Thread Clarity

Hey guys,

Iv had to re-post this because it ended up on the bottom of the previous page and thus not been read... I really do appreciate all the posts very interesting indeed thanks BUT...

Just to make it clear guys, the thread is not about the decision to RTO. Seems its getting sidetracked to people posting why the captain should have his/her hands on the throttles over the FOs. It is soley to do with FOs/Capts views on certain airline SOPs which require the captain to set takeoff power.

Whether the captain has the final hand on the throttles after the power is set is not the point here... I completely understand why that is done, and agree to it, especially on widebody aircraft. Instead this particular thread is targeted at personal views on the matter only captains setting takeoff power in both PNF and PF roles.

Does it bother FOs who work in such SOP environments?

Thank You very much.

AkA.

[Murexway]

As captain, I always told my F/O/'s that the only reason I was in the left seat was that I was hired before them. The captain isn't paid more to fly the jet, but to make consistently correct decisions - for which he solely will be held legally responsible.

I had many, many F/O's over the years who were, undoubtedly, better "sticks" than I. I even had a former Space Shuttle commander as my F/O one trip. So I never kidded myself about my "superior" abilities just because I had four stripes.

But as for the handling the throttles on T/O, we did it the easy way - we just followed our company procedure.

[WW1018]

My understanding of this is, pilots (european hops) tend to do 2 sectors, so lets say EGBB - LEAL about 2hrs 20mins, captain will fly the out bound leg to LEAL, then on the way back the F/O will handle the T/O and Landing back into birmingham, Check out itvv's 737 go fly dvd, the F/O does the t/o on the way back.

Swiss pilots from what ive seen/heard advance the thrust levers with both the captains right hand and f/o's left hand on the thrust levers.

Michael.