Safety Pilot & FTL
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2004
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From: Isle of Man
Safety Pilot & FTL
Evening All,
The company I work for operates many different types of aircraft and quite often uses non typed pilots to sit in the right seat as safety pilot or Pilot's assistant.
Does this count towards flight duty time? they say to us folk that it doesn't!! I personally think that it does. If a person is acting as a crew member then it should count..
If anyone knows if my thinking is correct or not please let me know or at least where to find it!!
Many thanks
3legs
The company I work for operates many different types of aircraft and quite often uses non typed pilots to sit in the right seat as safety pilot or Pilot's assistant.
Does this count towards flight duty time? they say to us folk that it doesn't!! I personally think that it does. If a person is acting as a crew member then it should count..
If anyone knows if my thinking is correct or not please let me know or at least where to find it!!
Many thanks
3legs
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 302
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From: N.Ireland
Para 35 ANO 2005:
Personal flying log book
35. —(1) Every member of the flight crew of an aircraft registered in the United Kingdom and every person who engages in flying for the purpose of qualifying for the grant or renewal of a licence under this Order shall keep a personal flying log book in which the following particulars shall be recorded—
(a) the name and address of the holder of the log book;
(b) particulars of the holder's licence (if any) to act as a member of the flight crew of an aircraft; and
(c) the name and address of his employer (if any).
(2) Particulars of each flight during which the holder of the log book acted either as a member of the flight crew of an aircraft or for the purpose of qualifying for the grant or renewal of a licence under this Order, as the case may be, shall be recorded in the log book at the end of each flight or as soon thereafter as is reasonably practicable, including—
(a) the date, the places at which the holder embarked on and disembarked from the aircraft and the time spent during the course of a flight when he was acting in either capacity;
(b) the type and registration marks of the aircraft;
(c) the capacity in which the holder acted in flight;
(d) particulars of any special conditions under which the flight was conducted, including night flying and instrument flying; and
(e) particulars of any test or examination undertaken whilst in flight.
Personal flying log book
35. —(1) Every member of the flight crew of an aircraft registered in the United Kingdom and every person who engages in flying for the purpose of qualifying for the grant or renewal of a licence under this Order shall keep a personal flying log book in which the following particulars shall be recorded—
(a) the name and address of the holder of the log book;
(b) particulars of the holder's licence (if any) to act as a member of the flight crew of an aircraft; and
(c) the name and address of his employer (if any).
(2) Particulars of each flight during which the holder of the log book acted either as a member of the flight crew of an aircraft or for the purpose of qualifying for the grant or renewal of a licence under this Order, as the case may be, shall be recorded in the log book at the end of each flight or as soon thereafter as is reasonably practicable, including—
(a) the date, the places at which the holder embarked on and disembarked from the aircraft and the time spent during the course of a flight when he was acting in either capacity;
(b) the type and registration marks of the aircraft;
(c) the capacity in which the holder acted in flight;
(d) particulars of any special conditions under which the flight was conducted, including night flying and instrument flying; and
(e) particulars of any test or examination undertaken whilst in flight.
Joined: Feb 2008
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From: The wx is here, I wish u were beautiful
On the other side, we use "required flight crew" member in deciding whether to log. Does the aircraft, operation or aircraft/operation combination require your presence on the flight deck? Yes-log it under "other pilot time." Assuming you are qualified for the required crew member position you're filling. No-enjoy the ride.
Joined: Nov 2005
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From: UK
AFAIK under JAA if your non typed then you cannot log the time at all. Further, if for example you did have a type rating BUT the operator was NOT approved on the AOC or under JAR-OPS to operate the aircraft multi crew then you can't log the time either.
If it was me I would still hitch the ride and soak up all the experience and add a column to my logbook for safety pilot hours. Make sure that the hours do not add into your total flying hours. Then when applying for any jobs at a later date you can mention the safety pilot hours in your covering letter.
Have a read of LASORS - Section A Appendix B under Recording of Pilot Function and in particular the notes that refer to Co-pilot time. There are good references to the ANO and also to the Certificate of Airworthiness.
This has long been an issue for aircraft like the smaller Kingairs which in the UK are often certified as single pilot yet for insurance purposes a safety pilot is carried.
If it was me I would still hitch the ride and soak up all the experience and add a column to my logbook for safety pilot hours. Make sure that the hours do not add into your total flying hours. Then when applying for any jobs at a later date you can mention the safety pilot hours in your covering letter.
Have a read of LASORS - Section A Appendix B under Recording of Pilot Function and in particular the notes that refer to Co-pilot time. There are good references to the ANO and also to the Certificate of Airworthiness.
This has long been an issue for aircraft like the smaller Kingairs which in the UK are often certified as single pilot yet for insurance purposes a safety pilot is carried.
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 81
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From: Isle of Man
Thanks for all your comments i appreciate it! Hopefully we might clear this one up 
What I'm getting at is that we are required to sit in a single pilot aircraft like the Kingair as safety pilot. The aircraft concerned is not on an AOC but when we crew it we are told this time is not counted as duty time yet we are expected following a flight in this aircraft to carry out AOC work!!! Is this correct? After all we are still acting as a crew member although not typed!
3legs
What I'm getting at is that we are required to sit in a single pilot aircraft like the Kingair as safety pilot. The aircraft concerned is not on an AOC but when we crew it we are told this time is not counted as duty time yet we are expected following a flight in this aircraft to carry out AOC work!!! Is this correct? After all we are still acting as a crew member although not typed!
3legs
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,164
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From: UK
3legs,
I used to fly as a safety pilot in a beech 200. I have a frozen atpl(mcc included) but no type rating. The aircraft was a corporate machine with full time company pilot. It was certified single crew and there was no AOC. I only ever logged "other flying" in my logbook and did not include anything in my 'total flying hours'. It would have been nice to be able to log twin turbine time but alas not to be! Good experience though.
I used to fly as a safety pilot in a beech 200. I have a frozen atpl(mcc included) but no type rating. The aircraft was a corporate machine with full time company pilot. It was certified single crew and there was no AOC. I only ever logged "other flying" in my logbook and did not include anything in my 'total flying hours'. It would have been nice to be able to log twin turbine time but alas not to be! Good experience though.
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 81
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From: Isle of Man
MIKECR,
I do enjoy flying as a safety pilot, it is a good experience flying a more complex machine and i am logging it as other flying.
What is getting to me is doing my normal job on the AOC then having to crew this. There are mixed feelings amongst the ranks and some think it should be counted as part of a Flight Duty Period and others do not. The other sneaky thing they like to do is tell you that the day flying as a safety pilot was a "day off"
I do enjoy flying as a safety pilot, it is a good experience flying a more complex machine and i am logging it as other flying.
What is getting to me is doing my normal job on the AOC then having to crew this. There are mixed feelings amongst the ranks and some think it should be counted as part of a Flight Duty Period and others do not. The other sneaky thing they like to do is tell you that the day flying as a safety pilot was a "day off"
