Refuse to fly to hurricane?
I found myself holed up in a hotel on Miami Beach for four days during the passage of a hurricane.
I have absolutely never had so much fun in my flying career and, if I had died, it would have been with a great big smile on my face!
I have absolutely never had so much fun in my flying career and, if I had died, it would have been with a great big smile on my face!
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JW411 bet it wasn't a CAT 5 because the yanks would have had you out of there faster than a greasy chip
As I said before anything up to CAT 3 I have no problem with even if the eye makes a direct hit, anything above would be shear stupidity to stay.
As I said before anything up to CAT 3 I have no problem with even if the eye makes a direct hit, anything above would be shear stupidity to stay.
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What about flying to earthquake zones? You could be hit by an earthquake with no warning. Surely that's a good H&S reason for not flying there.
(for reference I'm currently between the San Andreas Fault and the Hayward Fault)
(for reference I'm currently between the San Andreas Fault and the Hayward Fault)
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Read my previous post about what is and not acceptable.
An earthquake is the unknown a CAT 5 hurricane isn't when the forecast is almost for a certain hit. It would be like jumping into the jaws of an Alligator and waiting to see what happens
An earthquake is the unknown a CAT 5 hurricane isn't when the forecast is almost for a certain hit. It would be like jumping into the jaws of an Alligator and waiting to see what happens
Well exactly so; two of my mates were in Istanbul when the last big earthquake struck. They were living in a very tall modern hotel.
The captain got out of bed and got himself into the car park PDQ. After a while, he realised that he hadn't seen the F/O yet so he called him on his mobile phone.
F/O was back in his bed having survived the event and couldn't see a lot of point in standing in a wet car park which did not have a guaranteed health and safety certificate!
As to one of the previous postings, I don't think you can actually be forced out of your home even in the USA even if you decide to sit it out.
The captain got out of bed and got himself into the car park PDQ. After a while, he realised that he hadn't seen the F/O yet so he called him on his mobile phone.
F/O was back in his bed having survived the event and couldn't see a lot of point in standing in a wet car park which did not have a guaranteed health and safety certificate!
As to one of the previous postings, I don't think you can actually be forced out of your home even in the USA even if you decide to sit it out.
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Then the F/O made a personal choice to go back inside, no one forced him to!
Everyone is different and for the record I am no fan of H&S I'm sure they would have kittens if they came along for a ride in a Pitts Special when I am trying to pull the wings of it. But I do reduce the risk by having a base of 5000ft and wear a parachute. Yet wild horses will not drag me onto a roller coaster.
Everyone is different and for the record I am no fan of H&S I'm sure they would have kittens if they came along for a ride in a Pitts Special when I am trying to pull the wings of it. But I do reduce the risk by having a base of 5000ft and wear a parachute. Yet wild horses will not drag me onto a roller coaster.
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In over 37 years of flying, I cannot remember any crew member ever refusing to fly to a destination that "might" be affected by hurricanes, typhoons or cyclones etc.etc.. If the weather is forecast to be above your minima on arrival (or you have 2 alternates that satisfy this requirement), then surely you are obliged to operate the flight as per your contract?
Perhaps you should spare a thought for your colleagues and their passengers who will be waiting for your arrival, so that they may keep the expected schedule.
Hurricanes, typhoons, cyclones, tornadoes, blizzards and fog, not to mention earthquakes, are part of the natural world's phenomena - if the thought of encountering any of them frightens you, then don't leave home! Your training and experience should help you deal with them on duty.
Perhaps you should spare a thought for your colleagues and their passengers who will be waiting for your arrival, so that they may keep the expected schedule.
Hurricanes, typhoons, cyclones, tornadoes, blizzards and fog, not to mention earthquakes, are part of the natural world's phenomena - if the thought of encountering any of them frightens you, then don't leave home! Your training and experience should help you deal with them on duty.
Symbian:
"Then the F/O made a personal choice to go back inside, no one forced him to!"
Sorry shag, you didn't read my posting properly.
The F/O never got out of the hotel in the first place. He thought along the lines that there has been an earthquake and he was still alive in his lovely bedroom and warm and he was still breathing so why the hell move.
The fact that the F/O (and me for that matter) was ex-military might have something to do with the decision-making process.
I see that you are into Pitts Specials. I could put you in touch with one of my old mates who is ex-Rothmans. Send me a PM.
"Then the F/O made a personal choice to go back inside, no one forced him to!"
Sorry shag, you didn't read my posting properly.
The F/O never got out of the hotel in the first place. He thought along the lines that there has been an earthquake and he was still alive in his lovely bedroom and warm and he was still breathing so why the hell move.
The fact that the F/O (and me for that matter) was ex-military might have something to do with the decision-making process.
I see that you are into Pitts Specials. I could put you in touch with one of my old mates who is ex-Rothmans. Send me a PM.
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Been in 3 hurricanes, or the ground effects thereof, including Andrew when it hit the Bahamas.
Was something of a non event: we, I was SLF on holiday, had a hurricane party on the balcony of the hotel: all the delayed Brits cracking open the booze we had planned to take home.
Our biggest concern was the guy with the dog who always sat in the parking lot next to the hotel.
Next hurricane in Florida, all the septics were evacuating the Gulf Coast: complete non event: we all went to the beach wave jumping next day.
Was something of a non event: we, I was SLF on holiday, had a hurricane party on the balcony of the hotel: all the delayed Brits cracking open the booze we had planned to take home.
Our biggest concern was the guy with the dog who always sat in the parking lot next to the hotel.
Next hurricane in Florida, all the septics were evacuating the Gulf Coast: complete non event: we all went to the beach wave jumping next day.
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Point8six
I think you might have thread drift as the original question was is it acceptable to leave a crew in the path of a hurricane not about the limits we operate to.
JW411
apologies for not reading your post properly and lets not get into the military civil thing else will get messy But he still made a personal choice to stay where he was, he wasn't ordered
Lastly just taken some nice pics of the outer rings of Ike shrouding the bottom half of the sun shine state.
I think you might have thread drift as the original question was is it acceptable to leave a crew in the path of a hurricane not about the limits we operate to.
JW411
apologies for not reading your post properly and lets not get into the military civil thing else will get messy
But he still made a personal choice to stay where he was, he wasn't orderedLastly just taken some nice pics of the outer rings of Ike shrouding the bottom half of the sun shine state.
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When Katrina came to the US, I was directed to make several flights in the area as it approached, and then right through the area of eye as it made landfall around New Orleans.
I made flights through the areas as the bands came ashore, but the later flights when I was assigned to fly down through the middle of the hurricane, I refused. The dispatchers seemed blissfully unaware that there was any hurricane at all "What hurricane?" I was contacted at one point by the chief pilot and threatened with my job every fifteen minutes, for five hours, under pressure to go. I still didn't go...but kept making printouts of the weather to save as evidence in the event he pushed it past the telephone and into the courtroom...which is where I'd gladly go for one foolish enough to question my decision not to fly in the weather.
I made flights through the areas as the bands came ashore, but the later flights when I was assigned to fly down through the middle of the hurricane, I refused. The dispatchers seemed blissfully unaware that there was any hurricane at all "What hurricane?" I was contacted at one point by the chief pilot and threatened with my job every fifteen minutes, for five hours, under pressure to go. I still didn't go...but kept making printouts of the weather to save as evidence in the event he pushed it past the telephone and into the courtroom...which is where I'd gladly go for one foolish enough to question my decision not to fly in the weather.
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Don't they have 'Extreme Weather' in 'Danish' Flight Sims?
How do you think the 'Old & bold' BOAC pilots survived back in history flying on Propellers in a force 10 gale?
How do you think the 'Old & bold' BOAC pilots survived back in history flying on Propellers in a force 10 gale?
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No thread drift SYMBIAN. The question was whether or not he should go to a destination which might be affected by a hurricane after arrival. It is a question of contractual obligation. If he felt that he and his crew would be put in danger by his company's insistence on operating the flight, then the best option would be to discuss, prior to departure, any alternatives for them, other than staying at the destination and enduring the effects of the hurricane. Refusing the flight can, in my opinion, only be valid if the weather is forecast below limits on predicted arrival.
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Point8six
I agree that you should never refuse to operate a flight whilst the limits allow it is what we get paid for and personally I enjoy it when I have to use my knowledge and experience to do it safely.
However there is no way I would won't to be under the path of a CAT 5, look at Ike and Cuba where people have sadly died. This is in a country where they have a well rehearsed evacuation plan since they lost hundred's back in I believe 61 or there abouts and made a commitment to keep their citizens safe.
There is absolutely no need to leave crew in since extreme conditions and the evidence is in Ike only a Cat 3 when it hit and reduced to 2 during its transit. Yet the crew that were there are now been evacuated as with katrina they are not in a fit state to operate due lack of rest and sustenance. So what was the point of leaving them their in the first place!
I agree that you should never refuse to operate a flight whilst the limits allow it is what we get paid for and personally I enjoy it when I have to use my knowledge and experience to do it safely.
However there is no way I would won't to be under the path of a CAT 5, look at Ike and Cuba where people have sadly died. This is in a country where they have a well rehearsed evacuation plan since they lost hundred's back in I believe 61 or there abouts and made a commitment to keep their citizens safe.
There is absolutely no need to leave crew in since extreme conditions and the evidence is in Ike only a Cat 3 when it hit and reduced to 2 during its transit. Yet the crew that were there are now been evacuated as with katrina they are not in a fit state to operate due lack of rest and sustenance. So what was the point of leaving them their in the first place!
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Some thoughts... Depending on your level of experience, and your equipment, how CLOSE you will skirt a hurricane vs stay at home will be the first issue. You won't be flying through them. The second issue is once parked. Leaving a plane out on the ramp or in a crappy hangar during a hurricane is a bush league move. This advice also goes for tornados, hail, ect...you might miss the party up the air, but your plane might get it on the ground while your in the hotel that night.
