Pre-Flighting a narrowbody
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Pre-Flighting a narrowbody
How long does it take, let's say on average, for an experienced crew to turn up at their aircraft do their pre-flighting, paperwork etc... before push back on a normal day for any given major carrier?
I witnessed something last night that left me feeling a little cold - to say the least - and I thought I'd check it out!
Cheers
I witnessed something last night that left me feeling a little cold - to say the least - and I thought I'd check it out!
Cheers
It depens on many factors such as the pilots/Type/SOPS/Company policy--if the flight were on a 'turn around' ---it could be 20 mins it could be 45--it could be 60
and that was? on what type?
I witnessed something last night that left me feeling a little cold - to say the least - and I thought I'd check it out!
Cheers
Cheers
On a turn around, a good flight deck crew will be just about ready to go by the time the IRSs have wound up (about 7mins depending on type). The cabin generally takes much longer . . .
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An MD80, where we were already all boarded and they were late from another flight. All in all, pre-flight done in less than 12 mins and we were airborne in less than 20 mins after their arrival!
OK, all went smoothly but how many holes might we have had in that Swiss cheese?
I've not witnessed anything that quick before!!
OK, all went smoothly but how many holes might we have had in that Swiss cheese?
I've not witnessed anything that quick before!!
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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Back in the mid eighties just finished SIM in Dublin, paxing back to LHR on Aer Lingus. All pax on board and waiting, briefs complete. Three flight deck arrive and just a few seconds more than the time it would take to get into one's seat the first engine was winding up. Possibly they had done all the preparation first and then gone for tea! One will never know.
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Re the previous, often, due to cicumstances another crew nember will have done the pre flight awaiting the arrival of the rostered crew. So the pre flight can seem pretty quick.
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We're not in a narrow body, but it shouldn't make any difference. We do international and domestic; our company policy is one hour show time for domestic, and two hours for international. However, for a crew that's replacing another crew on the turn, the walk around is quick, and the longest efforts in the cockpit will be loading the flight plan. With canned routes and plans, a fresh airplane that's already in play and ready to go, fueling done, and paperwork waiting to be signed, it really doesn't take long. Weather and flight information is already reviewed prior to coming on board, and a flight can be turned in short order.
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12 mins is certainly do-able, I've managed similar once. 5 mins for one guy to do the walkround whilst the other guy checks the tech log and the flight deck. 7 mins to program the FMC, work out the performance between them and briefly brief. If it's a familiar aircraft, familiar route and you've flown recently (ie 20 mins ago) there's not too much to cover.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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5 mins for one guy to do the walkround
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I suppose to some degree it depends on type. Some of the more modern flight deck setups are very quick to complete indeed - on my type, easily achievable in 10 mins or less from arriving at a 'cold' a/c to being ready for pushback/start with all performance calcs complete and departure briefing done. Usually, it's a fairly relaxed process though (especially first thing in the morning), and often takes more like 15 - 20 mins by the time all the chatting and tea-drinking is complete.
As the guys said above though, it is the cabin prep and security checks that take the longest, and then you have to contend with the whole boarding process. Would expect on an average day, minimum time from arrival to doors closed would be 25 mins for a 737 or smaller, and for the bigger Scarebuses, at least 30 mins. Again, it normally seems to take 30 - 35 mins,
From experience, charter ops seem take a little longer to prep than scheduled ops.
As the guys said above though, it is the cabin prep and security checks that take the longest, and then you have to contend with the whole boarding process. Would expect on an average day, minimum time from arrival to doors closed would be 25 mins for a 737 or smaller, and for the bigger Scarebuses, at least 30 mins. Again, it normally seems to take 30 - 35 mins,
From experience, charter ops seem take a little longer to prep than scheduled ops.
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On the Airbus with LPC and SEC FLT Plan, the cockpit is ready to go by the time the last pax has got off, if you can be arsed!! The Cabin takes well, depends how much chatting goes on
Don't see any proble with short turn arounds, I think we achieved 17 mins once at one of the German Airports.
Don't see any proble with short turn arounds, I think we achieved 17 mins once at one of the German Airports.
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On a turn around, a good flight deck crew will be just about ready to go by the time the IRSs have wound up (about 7mins depending on type).
Then we have Sokoto Nigeria, L1011 type, charter to JED.
FD and CC arrive at the aircraft.
Boarding stairs arrive in two minutes.
APU does not start...ships battery, low voltage.
GPU?
Unserviceable for the last two months.
Our senior ground engineer 'rounds up two 12volt tractor batteries, and with long jumper cables, connects same (in series) and in turn, to the aircrafts ships battery, APU started...success.
Ships battery starts charging, as designed.
Re-fueling starts.
Pax (362 total) and baggage loaded.
Ready to taxi in 45 minutes, from the get go.
This takes a well trained ground/FD/cabin crew to make this all happen, especially on a charter flight, at an outstation, with minimal facilities.
End of contract.
All crew receive one months salary bonus...plus, plus.
Company pays, no questions asked.
Same crews asked to fly this year.
Expect the same results...with a larger bonus.
Will the company pay...larger?
Yes, because they know full well that these crews can deliver the goods, on a timely basis.
Money talks, BS walks.
Works every time.
Always has, always will.
NB.
I would be remiss if I did not mention the nationality of the crew.
Except for the Commanders, nearly all are Jordanian...and a fine group to work with...many Royal Jordanian originally trained.
RJ had (and has) very high standards...and it shows.
Last edited by 411A; 9th Aug 2008 at 12:17.
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SNS3Guppy
"2 hours show time" will eat up too much duty time on ultra long haul [12+]. If you need 2 hours to prepare for an "int'l flight," one hour of that would be on your own time where I work. 
". . . our company policy is one hour show time for domestic, and two hours for international.
Twenty minutes for cold B727 FE pre-flight was checkride standard at my late, unlamented operation. And with time, that could be cut a little, no much tho.
Present equipment (bizjet), 30 minutes open door to taxi doable. Damned downlink flight plan eats time.
Present equipment (bizjet), 30 minutes open door to taxi doable. Damned downlink flight plan eats time.
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"2 hours show time" will eat up too much duty time on ultra long haul [12+]. If you need 2 hours to prepare for an "int'l flight," one hour of that would be on your own time where I work.
I did an aircraft change, B767, and turn around in just under 20 minutes not so long ago. However the aircraft was fully prepped, chex completed, parked at the adjacent gate, to be operated of a sector I had previously flown the same day, in severe clear weather and crewed by a highly competent F/O I had flown with many times.
All I had to do was strap myself in and complete the TO data and call for the checklist. Finished the rest of the brief during the inevitable wait for take off.
Not the norm but it can be done if there is a need.
Regards,
BH.
All I had to do was strap myself in and complete the TO data and call for the checklist. Finished the rest of the brief during the inevitable wait for take off.
Not the norm but it can be done if there is a need.
Regards,
BH.
