747-200F down in Bogota ?
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Ref: AngryBlackman post #60
Lol!
Wow Billy, looks like you've got your work cut out for you on this thread!
Good Luck!
Let me just cinch down my shoulder straps here........
Lol!
Wow Billy, looks like you've got your work cut out for you on this thread!
Good Luck!
Let me just cinch down my shoulder straps here........
Last edited by pacplyer; 8th Jul 2008 at 02:44.
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"They are bottom feeder's who couldn't get real jobs with real airlines."
Angryblackman,
From what I hear you may be correct in what you say. Actually some of Kalitta's pilots were furloughees from major US airlines (mine), all who have college degrees, with one being part of the 747 crew in which the engine departed over Lake Michigan. Another had 4 engine shutdowns in the two years he was there.
Springer
Angryblackman,
From what I hear you may be correct in what you say. Actually some of Kalitta's pilots were furloughees from major US airlines (mine), all who have college degrees, with one being part of the 747 crew in which the engine departed over Lake Michigan. Another had 4 engine shutdowns in the two years he was there.
Springer
Last edited by Springer1; 8th Jul 2008 at 02:38. Reason: speculation and hearsay on my part
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Kalitta's operation is not so bad, all things considered.
However, when he acquired many of the BA -200 TriStars and converted 'em to freighters, things started to run downhill is a rather substantial way, in the maintenance department.
Why?
Quite simply, Connie would absolutely not listen to folks who knew better.
I asked him personally whether he intended to send any of his maintenance supervisors to RollsRoyce for training, his reply was "we have been maintaining JT3's here for a long time, a jet engine is a jet engine, my guys don''t need any training."
Big mistake, as he soon found out.
However, when he acquired many of the BA -200 TriStars and converted 'em to freighters, things started to run downhill is a rather substantial way, in the maintenance department.
Why?
Quite simply, Connie would absolutely not listen to folks who knew better.
I asked him personally whether he intended to send any of his maintenance supervisors to RollsRoyce for training, his reply was "we have been maintaining JT3's here for a long time, a jet engine is a jet engine, my guys don''t need any training."
Big mistake, as he soon found out.
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Proper attribution of quotes
When you quote somebody, it is dishonest to mix a snippet of my quote with a line from someone else. Guppy, you are not giving proper attribution of quotes to proper posters.
It makes it appear, for example, that the same poster who made the comment about freedom of speech concerning media reports (me) is the same person who made the statement about "dirtbag operators" (angryblackman)
This is not the first time you've done this.
It makes me seriously wonder about your college education or at the very least your sincerity.
pac
It makes it appear, for example, that the same poster who made the comment about freedom of speech concerning media reports (me) is the same person who made the statement about "dirtbag operators" (angryblackman)
This is not the first time you've done this.
It makes me seriously wonder about your college education or at the very least your sincerity.
pac
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If Kallitta doesn't warrant a very invasive investigation by the FEDs given two hull losses in such a short period of time with such a small fleet, I don't know what does.
However, the FAA has never shown much concern for scrutinizing the bottom-feeder freight outfits. As for the reasons, I could think of several.
However, the FAA has never shown much concern for scrutinizing the bottom-feeder freight outfits. As for the reasons, I could think of several.
"Ah.... why operate expensive 3 man -200's when you can have newer 400's?
Why try to sell a frame, wait for a buyer that will be hard to come by?"
Because it's cheaper to buy a Classic than a -400. I've heard Connie paid cash for all his Classics (he will have to finance the -400s he has coming.)
I doubt he's looking to sell.
Why try to sell a frame, wait for a buyer that will be hard to come by?"
Because it's cheaper to buy a Classic than a -400. I've heard Connie paid cash for all his Classics (he will have to finance the -400s he has coming.)
I doubt he's looking to sell.
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The classics are junk at $130 oil. The only reason some are still flying is because the shippers are desperate for the capacity and are willing to foot the fuel bill. I think the hourly rate for a -200 is down close to $4000, probably less than that now. Maybe some others with more direct current info will have a more accurate figure.
It wouldn't be beyond belief to think that the ACMI carriers are skimping on mx in order to try and at least break even.
It wouldn't be beyond belief to think that the ACMI carriers are skimping on mx in order to try and at least break even.
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the loss of 2 hulls in a short time alone plus any claims from third parties
can weigh heavely on your ins. policies-even if governments pay for war risk
i should think willis/marsh et all do stand up and take notice of this.
its seems ck may have found themselves in a sim situation that happened to mk cargo
can weigh heavely on your ins. policies-even if governments pay for war risk
i should think willis/marsh et all do stand up and take notice of this.
its seems ck may have found themselves in a sim situation that happened to mk cargo
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Whore...dirt bag...scum bag.., lots of big words there. What college did you go to in order to learn such refined literary skills? Any one else you would care to insult with your tact and non-judgemental approach to discussing an accident no on knows anything about yet? Why don't you let us all know who you fly your 474-400 for so we can avoid them like the plauge, because I sure don't want someone with your "anger management" issues behind the yoke of any plane I am flying in.
Patrick
Patrick
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Let me tell you something slick....Ive worked with the old AIA and Kalitta
since 1995...and your probably the guy the used to fly terre haute-toledo
and complain....well..yeah...but dont you dare for one minute...assume or
presume for a minute that you know...this company...yeah..AIA was a
madhouse..but this company has quality people...and dam good pilots...
just ask the guys.that flew for TWA, USAir...Northwest..yeah..they might have gone back for the pay..but they miss it....just about every one of them..and surprise surprise...not all of them went back...you become a better pilot at this company...as far as maintenence..slowly but surely...
its changing and for the better...we have some of the best ride on mechanics in the business..and those that dont make the grade or cant handle it...move on..probably to the outfit your working at........and we are tight....i wont dispute those instances...you mention.but dont dare...for one minute say ...scum bags?
.....show me a pilot who isnt.
Management..? sure..it could be better..scheduling..its improved..but we still have a dam good group of pilots..and that crew in bogota...knew there stuff...trust me i know them all....better than most..and not as good as others..but no superman among them.just very knowledgeable men...
sure we are bottom feeders..but dont forget one thing slick....we were doing a hell of a lot better than any swinging freight dog outfit in the business bar none..and for whatever we may think of that one eyed
......., he knows the business and that airplane better than you ever will..... We might have been Con air ...once ..but its the crews and the people that come to the company that have changed its face....mark my words ...we will be back...and
since 1995...and your probably the guy the used to fly terre haute-toledo
and complain....well..yeah...but dont you dare for one minute...assume or
presume for a minute that you know...this company...yeah..AIA was a
madhouse..but this company has quality people...and dam good pilots...
just ask the guys.that flew for TWA, USAir...Northwest..yeah..they might have gone back for the pay..but they miss it....just about every one of them..and surprise surprise...not all of them went back...you become a better pilot at this company...as far as maintenence..slowly but surely...
its changing and for the better...we have some of the best ride on mechanics in the business..and those that dont make the grade or cant handle it...move on..probably to the outfit your working at........and we are tight....i wont dispute those instances...you mention.but dont dare...for one minute say ...scum bags?
.....show me a pilot who isnt.Management..? sure..it could be better..scheduling..its improved..but we still have a dam good group of pilots..and that crew in bogota...knew there stuff...trust me i know them all....better than most..and not as good as others..but no superman among them.just very knowledgeable men...
sure we are bottom feeders..but dont forget one thing slick....we were doing a hell of a lot better than any swinging freight dog outfit in the business bar none..and for whatever we may think of that one eyed
...
...., he knows the business and that airplane better than you ever will..... We might have been Con air ...once ..but its the crews and the people that come to the company that have changed its face....mark my words ...we will be back...and
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Yep,
Post #60 (angryblackman) sounds like somebody who got fired at CK. Lots of anger there. And there are errors in his post as well. The gitmo dc-8 accident, IIRC, had a base-turn white flashing beacon o.o.s. and the crew was wide awake throughout the approach. Tired, yes. Asleep, no. The last thing the engineer said as the PF overbanked inside way too short a final was "Oh man, we're never going to make this!"
That accident lead to revisions of supplemental duty time limits as I recall.
And the DC-8 engine separation over denver, if this was 1985/86, I was flying that night into stapleton and it was the most extreme rocky mountain turbulence anybody had ever seen. But I thought the engine did not fall off: it was just hanging by a thread. It was a UPS painted bird if I recall correctly (IIRC.) But it's unlikely that "angryman" is capable of calmly answering that.
So Guppy's right, in that you can't take accidents from decades ago and lump them all together in this decade and imply that there is something wrong with the maintenance by itself. But the age of these things is a valid reason that the PIC should have full authority on how it is operated. We used to worry about these airframes being too old and "oil canning" at 4x,000 hrs. If you had told me that they would still be flying in 2008 I would have told you that you don't know what you're talking about. The 747 is in every way as great a machine as the DC-3 was in my opinion.
So I agree with 411A that Kallita is typical of small outfits just trying to get by. They should be given tax free status, and allowed to put that money into re-engining their fleet.
That's what I think.
Best Regards,
pac
Post #60 (angryblackman) sounds like somebody who got fired at CK. Lots of anger there. And there are errors in his post as well. The gitmo dc-8 accident, IIRC, had a base-turn white flashing beacon o.o.s. and the crew was wide awake throughout the approach. Tired, yes. Asleep, no. The last thing the engineer said as the PF overbanked inside way too short a final was "Oh man, we're never going to make this!"
That accident lead to revisions of supplemental duty time limits as I recall.
And the DC-8 engine separation over denver, if this was 1985/86, I was flying that night into stapleton and it was the most extreme rocky mountain turbulence anybody had ever seen. But I thought the engine did not fall off: it was just hanging by a thread. It was a UPS painted bird if I recall correctly (IIRC.) But it's unlikely that "angryman" is capable of calmly answering that.
So Guppy's right, in that you can't take accidents from decades ago and lump them all together in this decade and imply that there is something wrong with the maintenance by itself. But the age of these things is a valid reason that the PIC should have full authority on how it is operated. We used to worry about these airframes being too old and "oil canning" at 4x,000 hrs. If you had told me that they would still be flying in 2008 I would have told you that you don't know what you're talking about. The 747 is in every way as great a machine as the DC-3 was in my opinion.
So I agree with 411A that Kallita is typical of small outfits just trying to get by. They should be given tax free status, and allowed to put that money into re-engining their fleet.
That's what I think.
Best Regards,
pac
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It makes it appear, for example, that the same poster who made the comment about freedom of speech concerning media reports (me) is the same person who made the statement about "dirtbag operators" (angryblackman)
I'm not going to start an entirely separate post simply to address you, any more than I would walk out of the room and come back in again to reply to another person when you're both standing next to each other.
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Seems angryblackman is no longer flying for any company if this post of his from the Canada forum is to be believed.
Quote from angryblackman:
I don't have a problem with Transport Canada!
Of course, I'm a senior inspector at Transport Canada who will secure his government pension and enjoy his well deserved retirement soon.
I really don't understand what all the fuss is about...HEY!!!!
If nothing else us lucky Canadians have a real smooth talker in our regulator.
Quote from angryblackman:
I don't have a problem with Transport Canada!
Of course, I'm a senior inspector at Transport Canada who will secure his government pension and enjoy his well deserved retirement soon.
I really don't understand what all the fuss is about...HEY!!!!
If nothing else us lucky Canadians have a real smooth talker in our regulator.
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Yeah Chuck,
But there's no history on his alter ego sinkrate47 since it only has 2 posts!
Why some posters feel they have to invent "sock puppets" to support themselves or quote people dishonestly without attribute and in association with other's verb-age is beyond me.
Back to the topic. The 747-200, in the 80's had a known habit of producing occasional false fire warnings. The procedure, of course, was to pull the power back on that thrust lever hoping the reduced thrust/bleed would reduce pressure/temp in the cowling "fire loops" if that was indeed the problem. If that worked and the fire light went out, a return to airfield was in order. An engine inspection and test runs would be performed. If nothing turned up in the way of a culprit, things would progress to considering a sensor system fault. The way to keep the airplane flying was to "re-rack" the firecards above and behind the engineer's circuit breaker wall on the way to the right UL service door. The aircraft would be signed off as ground checks O.K. and off you go. But the problem could recur; it was a gamble. A persistent history of write ups could go on like this for several days until mtc finally changed enough components to rectify the problem.
This is not to suggest that's what happened in Columbia. Investigators will have to secure copies of the logbook pages that mtc is required by FAA to keep on file. If they are missing then, you have a real case for something fishy going on. Whoot Gibson's log pages were not found for years.
But there's no history on his alter ego sinkrate47 since it only has 2 posts!
Why some posters feel they have to invent "sock puppets" to support themselves or quote people dishonestly without attribute and in association with other's verb-age is beyond me.
Back to the topic. The 747-200, in the 80's had a known habit of producing occasional false fire warnings. The procedure, of course, was to pull the power back on that thrust lever hoping the reduced thrust/bleed would reduce pressure/temp in the cowling "fire loops" if that was indeed the problem. If that worked and the fire light went out, a return to airfield was in order. An engine inspection and test runs would be performed. If nothing turned up in the way of a culprit, things would progress to considering a sensor system fault. The way to keep the airplane flying was to "re-rack" the firecards above and behind the engineer's circuit breaker wall on the way to the right UL service door. The aircraft would be signed off as ground checks O.K. and off you go. But the problem could recur; it was a gamble. A persistent history of write ups could go on like this for several days until mtc finally changed enough components to rectify the problem.
This is not to suggest that's what happened in Columbia. Investigators will have to secure copies of the logbook pages that mtc is required by FAA to keep on file. If they are missing then, you have a real case for something fishy going on. Whoot Gibson's log pages were not found for years.
Hardly Never Not Unwilling
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I think the engine out performance charts need to be redone. As I said on the Brussels thread, I believe you don't get the advertised climb performance on old, bent airplanes with old engines. Just look up at V1 and ask yourself if you could stop. I think you're usually a lot further down the runway than you should be. The performance shortfall carries into the climb.
The answer is reducing weight capability and redoing the charts.
While I currently fly for a legacy carrier, I have flown a lot of night freight and international cargo. If there were a pilot olympics, I'd be betting on the freight dogs, Mr. Angry. My experience has been they are generally good pilots, able to adapt to unpredictable challenges, and a lot of fun to be around. Your characterizations are way off the mark as well as offensive.
I'm pulling for Connie and company during these unprecedented tough times.
The answer is reducing weight capability and redoing the charts.
While I currently fly for a legacy carrier, I have flown a lot of night freight and international cargo. If there were a pilot olympics, I'd be betting on the freight dogs, Mr. Angry. My experience has been they are generally good pilots, able to adapt to unpredictable challenges, and a lot of fun to be around. Your characterizations are way off the mark as well as offensive.
I'm pulling for Connie and company during these unprecedented tough times.
Trash du Blanc
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If there were a pilot olympics, I'd be betting on the freight dogs, Mr. Angry.
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re: Angryblackman
Angryblackman has posted a few 'different' comments over the last few days, in particular on the BA dep thread asking pretty bluntly about the number of black pilots and Captains employed by BA.
Given the astonishing use of language and personal attacks that he has made on this thread I am struggling to believe that he holds down the position that he claims he does. I certainly hope not. I would recommend that his comments are viewed with caution.
Given the astonishing use of language and personal attacks that he has made on this thread I am struggling to believe that he holds down the position that he claims he does. I certainly hope not. I would recommend that his comments are viewed with caution.
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