Alcohol Consumption
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Alcohol Consumption
Say a crew member is accused to have been drinking on positioning duty...
- would witnesses' statements be enough evidence to lead to summary dismissal if all that was seen was the purchase of alcohol and the drinking of a drink that did not actually contain the alcohol purchased?
- does the burden of proof lay with the accused?
- how does the balancing of probabilities work?
also,
- would not stopping a colleague on positioning duty from consuming alcohol -when one does not know whether they've drunk it or not- be a good enough reason for summary dismissal?
Any insights welcome!
- would witnesses' statements be enough evidence to lead to summary dismissal if all that was seen was the purchase of alcohol and the drinking of a drink that did not actually contain the alcohol purchased?
- does the burden of proof lay with the accused?
- how does the balancing of probabilities work?
also,
- would not stopping a colleague on positioning duty from consuming alcohol -when one does not know whether they've drunk it or not- be a good enough reason for summary dismissal?
Any insights welcome!
Last edited by BabyRuby; 24th May 2008 at 22:52.
Which airline, which country, whose laws and whose rules? Far to general a question to answer without specifics.
Country with strict labour laws? Expat working for Third world carrier with no rights??
Give us a clue!!
Country with strict labour laws? Expat working for Third world carrier with no rights??
Give us a clue!!
European airline!
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The issue of dismissal is a local, legal issue which you'll have to take up with the appropriate overseeing authority.
A bigger picture question, however, is why one would put one's self in this position?
Don't buy alcohol in uniform. Don't smell of alcohol in uniform, even residual alcohol. Don't drink unless it's identifiable, when in uniform.
There's a lot to be said for avoiding even the very appearance of evil, so the saying goes. It's well heeded.
A bigger picture question, however, is why one would put one's self in this position?
Don't buy alcohol in uniform. Don't smell of alcohol in uniform, even residual alcohol. Don't drink unless it's identifiable, when in uniform.
There's a lot to be said for avoiding even the very appearance of evil, so the saying goes. It's well heeded.
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Given that I'm nowhere near retirement, yet remember the halcyon days of landing drinks on the last sector of the day, and the fact that if you were positioning back after duty, your 'tonic water' on the flight home would probably not be entirely unadulterated, I conclude that we are without doubt going to hell in a hand cart.
The fact that the original poster doesn't clarify whether this positioning was before duty or after duty may be very deliberate or a red herring.
The fact that no other correspondent in this sad debate hasn't asked, is further cause for concern.
Guppy, I often assess options by asking myself whether I'm a man or a mouse... No offence, but you won't mind if I lock the cheese away next time you pass by..?
The fact that the original poster doesn't clarify whether this positioning was before duty or after duty may be very deliberate or a red herring.
The fact that no other correspondent in this sad debate hasn't asked, is further cause for concern.
Guppy, I often assess options by asking myself whether I'm a man or a mouse... No offence, but you won't mind if I lock the cheese away next time you pass by..?
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I'm sorry, frontlefthamster... I don't get what you mean with the cheese play on words... no red herrings intended or anything of the sort... just genuinely seeking views so as to help to a fairer outcome.
Positioning to operate the following day, not having operated on the day of positioning... simply trying to help good workers albeit too young and inexperienced for their own good...
Positioning to operate the following day, not having operated on the day of positioning... simply trying to help good workers albeit too young and inexperienced for their own good...
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You need to read the Railways & Transport Safety Act 2003, which now applies the law to the consumption of alcohol on duty and during stand-by, etc.
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts2003..._20030020_en_1
Part 5 is the bit you need.
In a nutshell the limits are roughly 1/4 of those for driving so as long as the 'accused' does not exceed the limit no offence is committed under this Act. But sniff 1/2 a lager from 200 yards and you'll more than likely be over the limit.
Unless a person is convicted of an offence under this Act I cannot see how any disciplinary action could be taken by an employer, otherwise the flood gates could be opened to all sorts of abuse.
But I do agree with the sentiments regarding drinking whilst in uniform - it can easily cast doubt on one's integrity. All Joe Public sees is the uniform and will always draw the wrong conclusion.
Now then, one week off so where's me beer?
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts2003..._20030020_en_1
Part 5 is the bit you need.
In a nutshell the limits are roughly 1/4 of those for driving so as long as the 'accused' does not exceed the limit no offence is committed under this Act. But sniff 1/2 a lager from 200 yards and you'll more than likely be over the limit.
Unless a person is convicted of an offence under this Act I cannot see how any disciplinary action could be taken by an employer, otherwise the flood gates could be opened to all sorts of abuse.
But I do agree with the sentiments regarding drinking whilst in uniform - it can easily cast doubt on one's integrity. All Joe Public sees is the uniform and will always draw the wrong conclusion.
Now then, one week off so where's me beer?
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Don't confuse the law regarding legally acceptable levels of blood alcohol with the terms and conditions of a contract of employment, especially regarding employee conduct whilst on duty/in uniform/otherwise representing the company.
Whilst this particular scenario is unlikely to be specifically included in that contract, there are many clauses of a wide-ranging and non-specific nature which can be used to encompass it. After all, I'm sure it is legally acceptable to call your boss many varied and interesting names, seasoned liberally with expletives, but I doubt it would be terribly beneficial to your continued employment.
There are many, many ways a wily and devious manager can attempt to nobble an employee if they so wish, with many different actions which can be construed as 'misconduct' or gross misconduct. And as most contracts in the UK work on the basis of 'reasonable belief', it can be difficult to prove oneself innocent of any percieved wrongdoing.
That said, an equally wily and devious employee can run rings around their manager.
Don't confuse the law regarding legally acceptable levels of blood alcohol with the terms and conditions of a contract of employment, especially regarding employee conduct whilst on duty/in uniform/otherwise representing the company.
Whilst this particular scenario is unlikely to be specifically included in that contract, there are many clauses of a wide-ranging and non-specific nature which can be used to encompass it. After all, I'm sure it is legally acceptable to call your boss many varied and interesting names, seasoned liberally with expletives, but I doubt it would be terribly beneficial to your continued employment.
There are many, many ways a wily and devious manager can attempt to nobble an employee if they so wish, with many different actions which can be construed as 'misconduct' or gross misconduct. And as most contracts in the UK work on the basis of 'reasonable belief', it can be difficult to prove oneself innocent of any percieved wrongdoing.
That said, an equally wily and devious employee can run rings around their manager.
