Aircraft on 'simultaneous' approach to 09L and 09R at Heathrow
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Aircraft on 'simultaneous' approach to 09L and 09R at Heathrow
Spent half an hour watching the professionals land their airliners at Heathrow at the weekend whilst there was strong northerly winds.
Noticed that although most aircraft were on 09L, there were a few on 09R as well although not not at exactly the same time , there was a gap.
Correct me if I'm wrong but aircraft cannot be simultaneously on approach on both runways whilst they are side by side as the runways are a little bit close?
So presumably it is done to get the aircraft a little bit closer spaced that would be possible on a single runway?
Is this procedure only adopted on the 09 runways as there are no noise abatement procedures like those for the westerly runways?
Noticed that although most aircraft were on 09L, there were a few on 09R as well although not not at exactly the same time , there was a gap.
Correct me if I'm wrong but aircraft cannot be simultaneously on approach on both runways whilst they are side by side as the runways are a little bit close?
So presumably it is done to get the aircraft a little bit closer spaced that would be possible on a single runway?
Is this procedure only adopted on the 09 runways as there are no noise abatement procedures like those for the westerly runways?
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Living under the approaches for 27L and 27R, I noticed that planes would swap from approaching on one side of the house to the other. I found out later that this is deliberate, and that Heathrow switch between left and right for landings and take-offs, to give communities living under the paths respite from aircraft passing overhead for a while.
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There is something in Air Law about the distance between runways affecting the spacing on parrallel approaches. I haven't got a reference at the minute, but will try and find one...
spikeair...yes, Saturday AM was a bit interesting to say the least. The normal protocol at LHR when operating on the Easterlies to land 09L and depart 09R - there is no noise abatement switch at 1500 Local for the Easterlies..However if there are significant inbound holding delays ( and we held at LAM for 30 minutes on Saturday) then ATC can use both runways for landing to get aircraft out of the holds and onto the ground. If that is happening most of the 09R landers will be inbound to T4, that gets them to the Terminal quicker and avoids them having to taxi across 09R, so helping the rate of movement on the ground ( well, that's how I understand it). No doubt an LHR ATCr will be along with more info.
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As MacBoero says, we are mandated a landing runway on westerlies (27s), and that switches at 1500 local (due noise)
On easterlies (09s), we are mandated a departure runway (09R - again due noise) so because we are usually busy, we tend to land only on 09L. However, if it's quiet outbound, or the inbound delay builds up unacceptably, we do land the odd one on 09R...this tends to be T4 traffic to save them and us a long taxy and runway crossing.
On easterlies (09s), we are mandated a departure runway (09R - again due noise) so because we are usually busy, we tend to land only on 09L. However, if it's quiet outbound, or the inbound delay builds up unacceptably, we do land the odd one on 09R...this tends to be T4 traffic to save them and us a long taxy and runway crossing.
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Oh, and we could bring two a/c down the approach parallel to each other, but that requires good weather and both flight crews being happy to maintain their own separation between themselves. Far easier all round to stagger the inbounds and use wake vortex separation to our advantage.
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thanks for the replies. interesting to know. Didn't realise that aircraft were put in holds for that long.
presumably the autopilots were flying the holds. That would be quite tiring doing that flying by hand! Well I'd find it hard to do anyway?
(I'm a ppl/imc)
presumably the autopilots were flying the holds. That would be quite tiring doing that flying by hand! Well I'd find it hard to do anyway?
(I'm a ppl/imc)
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Hopefully everyone is on AP going into the holds. At our outfit we wouldn't even contemplate not having it on. On a busy day there is only 1000ft separation in the stack over say Bovingdon to the north. Last thing you need is a level bust followed by a TCAS RA. If you survive it then you will be filling in paperwork for years!
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DIT:-
Try ILS-PRM for parallel spacing requirements -I do not have the relevant books with me. I think you'll find that LHR's runways are far enough apart to allow simultaneous approaches.
Try ILS-PRM for parallel spacing requirements -I do not have the relevant books with me. I think you'll find that LHR's runways are far enough apart to allow simultaneous approaches.
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I could be totally wrong, and usually am, but sod it - I think the figure of 760m is something to do with the spacing required between two runways.
However, I am fully prepared to be proved very wrong!!
However, I am fully prepared to be proved very wrong!!
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760m is the figure for independent ops on parallel runways with regard to wake vortex.
As I said earlier, this is only permitted when both crews are happy to keep their own visual separation.
I think you'll find that LHR's runways are far enough apart to allow simultaneous approaches.
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Also.. if an a.c is lined up for say 27L. But the spacing is getting tight, for what ever reason. The ATCO may offer the pilot to take 27R visually, to save a go around etc.
Can't remember the the correct term for this.
There are airports with 3 runways in parallel, and are used for 3 approaches in parallel too. ** Left ** Central and ** right. Maintained with visual separation.
Can't remember the the correct term for this.
There are airports with 3 runways in parallel, and are used for 3 approaches in parallel too. ** Left ** Central and ** right. Maintained with visual separation.
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I think to do a Sidestep-Visual at LHR in that situation you may as well go-around.
You can have it like this if i am correct.
27R I-AA BAW98PL 2 miles to go. KLM883 7 miles to go. UAL921 11 miles to go.
27L I-BB AAL133 4.5 miles to go.
Seems practical.
Regards,
You can have it like this if i am correct.
27R I-AA BAW98PL 2 miles to go. KLM883 7 miles to go. UAL921 11 miles to go.
27L I-BB AAL133 4.5 miles to go.
Seems practical.
Regards,
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Dunno what the big deal is...
KLAX have much closer parallel runways, and simultanious landing ops are done all the time...25L/R, for example.
So long as the wx is suitable, no problem whatsoever.
Other airports are similar.
KLAX have much closer parallel runways, and simultanious landing ops are done all the time...25L/R, for example.
So long as the wx is suitable, no problem whatsoever.
Other airports are similar.
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Heathrows Parallel runways are .88 miles apart.
KLAX is 15 wow. Right next to each other or separated a bit on the ILS??
I suppose It's also because of the Runway Alternation, I wonder if a Heathrow Tower or Approach Controller can tell us the main reason?
Regards,
KLAX is 15 wow. Right next to each other or separated a bit on the ILS??
I suppose It's also because of the Runway Alternation, I wonder if a Heathrow Tower or Approach Controller can tell us the main reason?
Regards,
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KLAX is 15 wow
In actual fact, the runways at KLAX are separated by only several hundred yards.
Having used 25L for landing, I could see what the color of the tie was on the guys at the pointy end, just abeam, on 25R.
Nothing new.
