Forced entry into a hold
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Forced entry into a hold
Hello,
Can somebody shed some light on how it is exactly that one would force an entry into a hold. For example, lets say for this particular hold parallel is the obvious entry but standard would be the easier and more convenient.
Lets say your inbound the VOR on radial 220 and holding on radial 120 with left turns.
My guess as to how its done is that one would try intercept say radial 150 inbound and then a direct entry would be possible. Can anyone confirm if this is correct or is there a different method of doing it.
Can somebody shed some light on how it is exactly that one would force an entry into a hold. For example, lets say for this particular hold parallel is the obvious entry but standard would be the easier and more convenient.
Lets say your inbound the VOR on radial 220 and holding on radial 120 with left turns.
My guess as to how its done is that one would try intercept say radial 150 inbound and then a direct entry would be possible. Can anyone confirm if this is correct or is there a different method of doing it.
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a simple way
Working out holding entries is simple.
Standard or right turns, hold up your right thumb.
Non standard or left turns, hold up your left thumb.
Easy eh ?
Now for a standard turn...
The CDI is centered and you're heading straight for the VOR.
Set the OUTBOUND holding course with your heading bug. ( assuming no auto pilot )
Hold your right thumb up horizontally, poking it in towards the centre of the HSI just enough so the that bottom of your thumb is aligned with the 90 degree mark and the top of your thumb is covering the 20 degrees above this. ( So if the HSI was showing North your fingernail would be covering up between 90 degrees and 70 degrees ) If the bug is then positoned between the top of your thumb and the lubber line join teardrop. Draw an imaginary line from the top of your thumb to the reciprical on the left side of the instrument or twist the OBS needle as a marker to mark the imaginary line especially if you have a spare instrument ( If HSI was showing a North heading draw the line from 70 degrees to 250 degrees or twist the OBS so that the head is on 70 and the tail on 250 degrees ) If the bug is then between the lubber line and your imaginary line on the left of the HSI ( or the tail of the needle,) then join parallel - join direct if the bug is sitting between the top of your thumb or needle head and the other side of the imaginary line or needle tail.
Works great ! For non standard hold your thumb on the opposite side of the HSI.
Standard or right turns, hold up your right thumb.
Non standard or left turns, hold up your left thumb.
Easy eh ?
Now for a standard turn...
The CDI is centered and you're heading straight for the VOR.
Set the OUTBOUND holding course with your heading bug. ( assuming no auto pilot )
Hold your right thumb up horizontally, poking it in towards the centre of the HSI just enough so the that bottom of your thumb is aligned with the 90 degree mark and the top of your thumb is covering the 20 degrees above this. ( So if the HSI was showing North your fingernail would be covering up between 90 degrees and 70 degrees ) If the bug is then positoned between the top of your thumb and the lubber line join teardrop. Draw an imaginary line from the top of your thumb to the reciprical on the left side of the instrument or twist the OBS needle as a marker to mark the imaginary line especially if you have a spare instrument ( If HSI was showing a North heading draw the line from 70 degrees to 250 degrees or twist the OBS so that the head is on 70 and the tail on 250 degrees ) If the bug is then between the lubber line and your imaginary line on the left of the HSI ( or the tail of the needle,) then join parallel - join direct if the bug is sitting between the top of your thumb or needle head and the other side of the imaginary line or needle tail.
Works great ! For non standard hold your thumb on the opposite side of the HSI.
Last edited by LeakyLucy; 26th Jan 2008 at 02:53.
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ola,
dont think u can force urself to do that, ur clearance should have stated the inbound clearance..dont think the atc will like u to start making turns in the sky just so that u get a chance of making a direct entry rather then a teardtop,hope this answers ur question,
keep it up there fellows,
no more 406pilot
dont think u can force urself to do that, ur clearance should have stated the inbound clearance..dont think the atc will like u to start making turns in the sky just so that u get a chance of making a direct entry rather then a teardtop,hope this answers ur question,
keep it up there fellows,
no more 406pilot
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As entry into the hold is by heading, I think what you are trying to find out is, is it permissable to slightly change the heading to achieve an offset entry instead of a parallel entry (reverse pattern)? Yes, but don't go outside the holding pattern area and don't do it on a sim check nor line check!!
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Skiesfull,
You have more or less understood what I mean but not just change parallel for teardrop but also teardrop for standard etc. I mean any scenario where you could try and make the entry the easier option. I have already got some feedback on this from the ATC guys and they seem to be all of the opinion that it is safest to enter by the entry corresponding to your heading toward the fix as it provides the greater safety. That said, thats what I will stick with.
You have more or less understood what I mean but not just change parallel for teardrop but also teardrop for standard etc. I mean any scenario where you could try and make the entry the easier option. I have already got some feedback on this from the ATC guys and they seem to be all of the opinion that it is safest to enter by the entry corresponding to your heading toward the fix as it provides the greater safety. That said, thats what I will stick with.
PPRuNeaholic
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I think that the word "forcing" is a tad misleading in the context of what I comprehend from this topic. I believe that, provided you can assure yourself that :-
1. You are LEGALLY above all relevant obstacles; and
2. Well clear of all other traffic; and
3. Have ATC approval, whenever in controlled airspace,
you are entitled to SELECT a more favourable entry to the reversal in the holding pattern, prior to commencing the approach. I'm sure that this flexibility is enshrined in every AIP - well, at least for those States that have adopted ICAO Pans Ops, anyway.
1. You are LEGALLY above all relevant obstacles; and
2. Well clear of all other traffic; and
3. Have ATC approval, whenever in controlled airspace,
you are entitled to SELECT a more favourable entry to the reversal in the holding pattern, prior to commencing the approach. I'm sure that this flexibility is enshrined in every AIP - well, at least for those States that have adopted ICAO Pans Ops, anyway.
2 methods, AFAIK:
1. fly in HDG instead of NAV
2. disconnect autopilot and fly manually
I guess you wanted to know how to make your FMS make different entry than the one computed. Dunno about the other systems around, but A320's FMGS v1 can't be made to do that.
1. fly in HDG instead of NAV
2. disconnect autopilot and fly manually
I guess you wanted to know how to make your FMS make different entry than the one computed. Dunno about the other systems around, but A320's FMGS v1 can't be made to do that.
