Diversion in China
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Diversion in China
I work for an airline that regularly flies through China and uses Xian, Chengdu, Urumqi, and Lanzhou as enroute alternates.
Some of our esteemed brothers think that arrival in any of the above airfield is a quick turnaround gas and go operation but have doubts myself. Are these cities the kind of place you'd drop off a medical emergency and once you're there in a 747 without pre-arranged support is a quick turnaround a reality?
Thanks
Some of our esteemed brothers think that arrival in any of the above airfield is a quick turnaround gas and go operation but have doubts myself. Are these cities the kind of place you'd drop off a medical emergency and once you're there in a 747 without pre-arranged support is a quick turnaround a reality?
Thanks
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We were planned from HK to DXB, with a Vietnam overflight, and a very short China overflight.
The Vietnam was actually for the wrong day, one day too early, due to an admin finger slip up.
China permitted a complete reroute with in and out points varied, at less than 1 hours notice.
This always was never possible, so perhaps a 744 drop in might actually be able to depart.
As another point upon our landing in DXB, a Cathey had pushed back, and started taxi, when they advised a possible medical emergency.
They asked to go back to stand, which was now already occupied, so put towards a remote stand, and given the ambulance service VHF to chat on....I assume that they would have no problem with their overflight, but am I wrong.????
GSA
The Vietnam was actually for the wrong day, one day too early, due to an admin finger slip up.
China permitted a complete reroute with in and out points varied, at less than 1 hours notice.
This always was never possible, so perhaps a 744 drop in might actually be able to depart.
As another point upon our landing in DXB, a Cathey had pushed back, and started taxi, when they advised a possible medical emergency.
They asked to go back to stand, which was now already occupied, so put towards a remote stand, and given the ambulance service VHF to chat on....I assume that they would have no problem with their overflight, but am I wrong.????
GSA
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Couple of weeks ago enrout from LHR - HKG we had a serious medical emergency which resulted in us having to divert. We were roughly half way between Urumqui to the south and Irkutsk to the north, both of these airfields considered as primary alternates by the company in terms of runway length, baring strenghth and ground handling facilities. In this case we clearly needed some decent medical facilities too so after consultation with Medlink on the satphone ( who had not even heard of Urumqui) we initiated a diversion to IKT (that is a large city with a good hospital). The ATC at the time were very good, they only recognised a mayday and it took a little longer than we would have liked to get a clearance to turn towards IKT. Thereafter it was ok, good direct routinggs and radar vectors to ILS RWy 12 at IKT, lots to consider though, terrain, QFE/metre operations, steep approach with steep upsloap on the rwy. very narrow taxiways only some of which are strong enough to take a 744, and no tow bar for a 744 so parking was a consideration.
Once parked up, and they finally attached some steps the fun began. Any ideas of a quick fuel and go went staight out the window. They dont get jumbos in there and they intended to make the most of it ( TV crews etc).
The biggest problem was the language, no one spoke any english at all, luckily we had a russian speaking crew member and everything had to go though him. The next problem was before anything could happen the authorities wanted to know who was paying and who had the authority to approve it....everything did happen, but very very slowly. we had to fuel ourselves, do Transit checks etc and we rapidly went out of hours. A nightstop was then the plan which did work out ok, again very slowly due visa problems. All crew stayed at airport hotel and all pax found hotels in town which we were told were ok ( the town has small tourist trade due the proximity of the trrans siberian express). Finally 6 hrs after landing we got off the aircraft to head to hotel.
After min rest, the next days departure was fairly uneventful, again just slow with the same language barrier to overcome.
Although not one of the alternates you mentioned, I'm sure similar problems would exist. Hope that helps.
Once parked up, and they finally attached some steps the fun began. Any ideas of a quick fuel and go went staight out the window. They dont get jumbos in there and they intended to make the most of it ( TV crews etc).
The biggest problem was the language, no one spoke any english at all, luckily we had a russian speaking crew member and everything had to go though him. The next problem was before anything could happen the authorities wanted to know who was paying and who had the authority to approve it....everything did happen, but very very slowly. we had to fuel ourselves, do Transit checks etc and we rapidly went out of hours. A nightstop was then the plan which did work out ok, again very slowly due visa problems. All crew stayed at airport hotel and all pax found hotels in town which we were told were ok ( the town has small tourist trade due the proximity of the trrans siberian express). Finally 6 hrs after landing we got off the aircraft to head to hotel.
After min rest, the next days departure was fairly uneventful, again just slow with the same language barrier to overcome.
Although not one of the alternates you mentioned, I'm sure similar problems would exist. Hope that helps.
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Thanks SY, exactly what I thought. Might be better to keep a medical emergency on board and take their chances rather than go to somewhere where they will almost certainly speak no english at the hospital. We use a different medical company for satcom calls but don't know if anyone has enquired how they will handle it over China.
Will the local fuel company accept our company credit cards? No towbar, hadn't thought of that one.
We have a 3 pilot crew, chances of a quick turnround in duty hours almost impossible by the sound of things.
Cheers
Will the local fuel company accept our company credit cards? No towbar, hadn't thought of that one.
We have a 3 pilot crew, chances of a quick turnround in duty hours almost impossible by the sound of things.
Cheers
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skol,
Certainly carrying on would have made our day alot easier, but the guy had had a heart attack and the crew had kept him alive with cpr and the defib and the advice from medlink ( with their info on IKT) and our crews own diagnosis made the diversion inevitable, on the plus side he was alive when they took him off the aircraft albeit still unconscious.
Alot of our operational decisions were made via the company thru the satphone which worked fine however we did seem to only get random ACARS msgs.
The company were talking to our Russian station manager in Moscow who did quite abit of the organising with the russian authorities but we certainly felt a bit isolated due to the lanuage problems.
As for fuel, it was suggested at one point that we use our own credit cards!! that got sorted eventually and we managed to get them to charge the company directly.
In summary, if you have to land quickly these airfields are perfectly adequate, however dont expect anything to happen quickly once on the ground. They do have all the advertised facilities they just dont have the equipment or the experience to handle a 744 such that a quick turnaround is possible.
we were also 3 crew, which meant that even with the best will in the world we were out of hours from the minute we landed.
Certainly carrying on would have made our day alot easier, but the guy had had a heart attack and the crew had kept him alive with cpr and the defib and the advice from medlink ( with their info on IKT) and our crews own diagnosis made the diversion inevitable, on the plus side he was alive when they took him off the aircraft albeit still unconscious.
Alot of our operational decisions were made via the company thru the satphone which worked fine however we did seem to only get random ACARS msgs.
The company were talking to our Russian station manager in Moscow who did quite abit of the organising with the russian authorities but we certainly felt a bit isolated due to the lanuage problems.
As for fuel, it was suggested at one point that we use our own credit cards!! that got sorted eventually and we managed to get them to charge the company directly.
In summary, if you have to land quickly these airfields are perfectly adequate, however dont expect anything to happen quickly once on the ground. They do have all the advertised facilities they just dont have the equipment or the experience to handle a 744 such that a quick turnaround is possible.
we were also 3 crew, which meant that even with the best will in the world we were out of hours from the minute we landed.
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Have heard from reliable sources that one carrier has had diverts into Northern airfields where:
- no fuel account with local fuel co. - so captain ended up with lots of points on his gold Amex member rewards account;
- local fuel co. would not take any credit cards - so captain's hat literally taken around the cabin (followed by another crew member with a receipt book).
But, apparently no worries (in terms of operating the aircraft) getting a 747 in and out.
Didn't a BA 744 drop into a remote Russian field not long ago with a medical, a/c then went u/s and they had to send in the cavalry to rescue the punters?
- no fuel account with local fuel co. - so captain ended up with lots of points on his gold Amex member rewards account;
- local fuel co. would not take any credit cards - so captain's hat literally taken around the cabin (followed by another crew member with a receipt book).
But, apparently no worries (in terms of operating the aircraft) getting a 747 in and out.
Didn't a BA 744 drop into a remote Russian field not long ago with a medical, a/c then went u/s and they had to send in the cavalry to rescue the punters?
I fly to Chengdu and Xian regularly, both are daily or more destinations for my airline. Both are modern well equipped airports and have 747s operating to them, so handling wouldn't be a problem. I suspect you will have the same porblems getiing fuel as you would any airport you divert to. English is spoken at both and engineering standards are good.
The only snag I can see is the beraucracy. Visas are required for China in advance, so a prolonged stay could be an issue, but I suspect in the case of a mayday, they would be flexible.
With my experience of both Russia and China, I would have chosen Urumqi with regards to aircraft handling. I'm not sure about the medical side though.
The only snag I can see is the beraucracy. Visas are required for China in advance, so a prolonged stay could be an issue, but I suspect in the case of a mayday, they would be flexible.
With my experience of both Russia and China, I would have chosen Urumqi with regards to aircraft handling. I'm not sure about the medical side though.
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Dan,
We would have just as easilly have gone to Urumqui but MEDLINK didnt have information on the standard of the medical care there but did at Irkutsk.
A BA744 did divert into a russian airfield a few years ago, cant remmeber which one but I think it was nearer to Almaty area.
It was for a cargo fire so usual pax handling etc didnt come into it. The runway was not long enough to take off again with full pax loads so few airbus flown in to get pax and jumbo then flown out empty.
We would have just as easilly have gone to Urumqui but MEDLINK didnt have information on the standard of the medical care there but did at Irkutsk.
A BA744 did divert into a russian airfield a few years ago, cant remmeber which one but I think it was nearer to Almaty area.
It was for a cargo fire so usual pax handling etc didnt come into it. The runway was not long enough to take off again with full pax loads so few airbus flown in to get pax and jumbo then flown out empty.
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China Myth
Having not operated in Russia (or former states) I can't comment on it. However, like Dan, I operate daily in and out of China. Yes they like all the i's dotted and t's crossed, but as suggested, in an emergency situation they would be accommodating. It seems "in the west" there is a bit of mystery surrounding China, which is probably due to the politics, however one must remember that the country has 1.4 billion people of which admittedly only a small percentage, travel. So there are internal operators using narrow body and some wide body aircraft from Mr Boeing and Airbus to cover the demand. Yes China had issues with it's avaition record in the late eighty's through to the nineties, but I think now they have pulled their socks up a bit and would be able to handle most contingencies. The process may not be a expediant as other "western" airports, but I think for the most part a diversion into most Chinese cities would work out fine....that's my 2 cents worth....
