PF/PNF who's in command ?
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
From: Well it's an IRS nowdays, but the AHRS were fun.
The pilot in command is just that, the pilot in command. It is a requirement of the law. As to the duties in the cockpit (Handling or Monitoring), these will be largely depicted by the type (I.E taxiing a boeing) and also the company SOP's.
Simple really.
To think that there are still those that believe that the command difference is all about calling for the checklists and that somehow it's important. Sheesh, this is the 21st century you know..!
Simple really.
To think that there are still those that believe that the command difference is all about calling for the checklists and that somehow it's important. Sheesh, this is the 21st century you know..!
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 2,997
Likes: 35
From: Oztrailia
I also don't believe the rubbish written in here.
There is and can be only 1 Captain with responsibility for the aircraft.
I sign for the damn plane, not the FO.
That being said when It's the Fo's sector he can make all the decisions, It's just that I have the over riding final say if I'm not happy.
Not complicated really.
There is and can be only 1 Captain with responsibility for the aircraft.
I sign for the damn plane, not the FO.
That being said when It's the Fo's sector he can make all the decisions, It's just that I have the over riding final say if I'm not happy.
Not complicated really.
Joined: Feb 1998
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 1,595
Likes: 0
From: Formerly of Nam
There appears to be some confusion over the new pilot role titles. This
notice will hopefully clear up any misunderstandings. The titles P1, P2 and
Co-Pilot will now cease to have any meaning, within the BA operations
manuals. They are to be replaced by Handling Pilot, Non-handling Pilot,
Handling Landing Pilot, Non-Handling Landing Pilot, Handling Non-Landing
Pilot, and Non Handling Non-Landing Pilot.
The Landing Pilot is initially the Handling Pilot and will handle the take-off
and landing except in role reversal when he is the Non-Handling Pilot for taxi
until the Handling Non-Landing Pilot hands the handling to the Landing Pilot at eighty knots.
The Non-Landing (Non-Handling, since the Landing Pilot is handling) Pilot
reads the checklist to the Handling Pilot until after Before Descent
Checklist completion, when the Handling Landing Pilot hands the handling to
the Non-Handling Non-Landing Pilot who then becomes the Handling Non-Landing Pilot.
The Landing Pilot is the Non-Handling Pilot until the "decision altitude"
call, when the Handling Non-Landing Pilot hands the handling to the
Non-Handling Landing Pilot, unless the latter calls "go-around", in which
case the Handling Non-Landing Pilot, continues Handling and the
Non-Handling Landing Pilot continues non-handling until the next call of
"land" or "go-around", as appropriate.
notice will hopefully clear up any misunderstandings. The titles P1, P2 and
Co-Pilot will now cease to have any meaning, within the BA operations
manuals. They are to be replaced by Handling Pilot, Non-handling Pilot,
Handling Landing Pilot, Non-Handling Landing Pilot, Handling Non-Landing
Pilot, and Non Handling Non-Landing Pilot.
The Landing Pilot is initially the Handling Pilot and will handle the take-off
and landing except in role reversal when he is the Non-Handling Pilot for taxi
until the Handling Non-Landing Pilot hands the handling to the Landing Pilot at eighty knots.
The Non-Landing (Non-Handling, since the Landing Pilot is handling) Pilot
reads the checklist to the Handling Pilot until after Before Descent
Checklist completion, when the Handling Landing Pilot hands the handling to
the Non-Handling Non-Landing Pilot who then becomes the Handling Non-Landing Pilot.
The Landing Pilot is the Non-Handling Pilot until the "decision altitude"
call, when the Handling Non-Landing Pilot hands the handling to the
Non-Handling Landing Pilot, unless the latter calls "go-around", in which
case the Handling Non-Landing Pilot, continues Handling and the
Non-Handling Landing Pilot continues non-handling until the next call of
"land" or "go-around", as appropriate.
Im sure it must also be writ in Frog somewhere.
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 523
Likes: 0
From: very close to STN!!
Don't Jump On 411!
exactly what did he say that was wrong?
though his statements might not be in terms appeasing to those of today's PC extremists.
indeed, i think it's actually a difference in terminology.
"run the show"---it had better be the captain, unless he/she is incapacitated-partilally or otherwise--because it is his/her head that is in the noose when the caca hits the fan. from the beginning to the end. the decision even to go to the aircraft, to the final fuel figure and choice of alternates--etc.
starting engines, calling for flaps and calling for checklists-- etc is not "running the show"
from the beginning to the end of the flight---all final decisions must sit squarely on the shoulders of the captain--full stop.
and i honestly don't know the man and will not receive any recompense for this, but in the real world of aviation i have flown in over the years--there MUST be one person that will take the full responsibility of the events of the aircraft.
it's us dinosaurs and the at-times-necessary attitude of being the final aurthority-- that has kept aviation going for these past few years---
yes, the game is changing in many ways, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water--there is a truth within the old terminology he is using.
though his statements might not be in terms appeasing to those of today's PC extremists.
indeed, i think it's actually a difference in terminology.
"run the show"---it had better be the captain, unless he/she is incapacitated-partilally or otherwise--because it is his/her head that is in the noose when the caca hits the fan. from the beginning to the end. the decision even to go to the aircraft, to the final fuel figure and choice of alternates--etc.
starting engines, calling for flaps and calling for checklists-- etc is not "running the show"
from the beginning to the end of the flight---all final decisions must sit squarely on the shoulders of the captain--full stop.
and i honestly don't know the man and will not receive any recompense for this, but in the real world of aviation i have flown in over the years--there MUST be one person that will take the full responsibility of the events of the aircraft.
it's us dinosaurs and the at-times-necessary attitude of being the final aurthority-- that has kept aviation going for these past few years---
yes, the game is changing in many ways, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water--there is a truth within the old terminology he is using.
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
From: Between EGGP and EGCC
In a nutshell ...... when I enter my flights as PF in my log-book, I enter the flight as P1/S. The "S" really sums it all up doesn't it. The captain is effectively supervising, and why shouldn't he, after all it IS his aeroplane. Thank god it is 2007 and the cross-cockpit gradient is flatter on an average day...thats fine for us up and coming commanders to be. I think as long as there is mutual respect on the flight deck then we are all happy bunnies are we not?
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
From: dubai
I have flown with Captains that i would not have my family fly on their aircraft....I agree not all Fos are up to the task but equally nor are all Captains....Some are past their sell by date and have not got a clue about new technology!!
In the company I work for now there are many FOs that have previously been Captains and they can do a damn site better than some of the Captains I fly with....
In the company I work for now there are many FOs that have previously been Captains and they can do a damn site better than some of the Captains I fly with....
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,021
Likes: 2
From: Glorious West Sussex
jimmyg
Just in case it helps..
In Airbus speak CM = Crew Member, so CM1 = person in left seat and CM2 = person in right seat.
PF can be CM1 or CM2
Indeed Captain can be CM1 or CM2
Good luck with the course!
Tyro
Just in case it helps..
In Airbus speak CM = Crew Member, so CM1 = person in left seat and CM2 = person in right seat.
PF can be CM1 or CM2
Indeed Captain can be CM1 or CM2
Good luck with the course!
Tyro
