Question about 737-200 engine failure at wheels up

[GreginAlaska]

Hi, I'm not a pilot but I have a question for you guys

If you had an engine failure at wheels up, what reason would make you decide to NOT climb, make a series of short duration steep turns to come back to the runway and then land? This happened at Deadhorse Alaska. IT's flatter than Kansas and about 20 feet above sea level, no tall buildings, no trees and no other aircraft around at the time. Weather was bright and sunny, 50 F, light breeze. The planes altitude was between 200 - 400 feet agl during the whole incident. ( according to an email from the company.) The mounting for the engine nose cone broke and went through the engine.
Thanks
G

[lomapaseo]

From your description I would suspect some FOD and loss of power with symptoms of vibration. The pilot may have only a need to throttle back to clear the symptoms and return on a single engine with the other either shutdown or at idle.

No fire, no other symptoms?

[GreginAlaska]

The people on the plane said it did shudder a bit and they saw some flames shoot out of the engine. The pilots shut it down.

Thanks for the reply.

Oh ya, it had several compressor stalls...it was making quite the bangs according to the people I talked to.

[GreginAlaska]

Ended up being caused by the engine nose cone coming off and going through the engine...the bolts that hold it on had been over torqued and they broke.

[CREAMER]

The only reason an Aircraft Commander would do this is if he deemed it more dangerous to stay airborne than to land. In my view the criteria covered are things like fires that won't go out or smoke in the cockpit. It sounds in this case that the Commander didn't really spend much time on diagnosis and made a snap decision to land. I wasn't there to get the full flavour of what was happening but if they survived without further damage then it was an ok decision to be discussed at length after the event. Better than digging out the CVR and FDR.

[Rainboe]

I think it would be a possible solution to do a low level circuit on one engine only if you have a fire warning continuing with backup visual reports of airframe fire. A low level circuit on one ongine is a very hazardous manouevre itself and incredibly difficult. If you turn into the dead engine, it would be very easy to overbank and drop with all the many things that will be going on- you could be in the ground in seconds. Turn away from the dead engine and turning is very, very difficult. Unless you have an active fire indication, I would be more inclined to fly a proper circuit. But then again, I wasn't there, and I hesitate to question the actions of the one who was. He used his judgement on the information he had on the day.

[GreginAlaska]

Interesting replies people. The flight took 12 minutes to come around and land again...all the while the flight attendants were screaming "heads down, grab ankles". I'm betting 12 minutes seems like a LONG time when you're in an airliner that is no more than 400 feet off the ground.

They did turn into the dead engine (it was the right engine and they turned right, I'm assuming that is "into the dead engine"? ) People onboard told me they made a series of short duration, steep banks to get turned around...I guess it was rather scary.

[ABX]

Interesting one there Greg.

Maybe Rainboe or others can tell me, if the aircraft was light (well below MTOW) would that have influenced the captain's decision to do a low level circuit rather than try for some altitude? For example, he knew he was light, but with a possible fire, so he considered that he had a good chance of completing a low level circuit?

Cheers.

Ps. Not trying to second guess the captain who obviously made a successful decision on the day.

[Rainboe]

If you're heavy in a twin and you lose one engine early, it is quite critical, and you must get the flaps up and accelerate as quickly as possible. But rather than do a dangerous procedure like a low level circuit on one engine, I think you should rely on the fire resistance of the aeroplane and climb away and retract flap as soon as possible. You must climb to 1000' to do so, then not retract flap in a turn, so you are likely to end up flying a reasonable distance before turning downwind. Sometimes you may have to accelerate, then turn, then retract flap. It's very difficult in a twin, even more critical in a heavy 4 engine jet with 2 out on one side.

[ABX]

Thank God (& Boeing) for the rudder authority of the 747 then eh Rainboe?

[Rainboe]

The Classic 747 was a bit of a struggle, the 747-400 much better. But even then you would have to have the rudder hard against the stop and about 5 degrees bank into the live engines to hold it. Not for beginners!