EDDF RWY25L GoAround Procedure

[1999]

Hello folks,
again the same question for the frequent flyers to EDDF :

which AP ALT setting you input for the above mentioned case :
- is it 5000' as the final cleared altitude according to the GA procedure, or
- 4000' (as one of the conditions together with DME 8.0 FFM check before LT to CHA climbing to 5000') ?

I posted this question earlier (in the wrong forum though ) and got one reply saying 5000' . Since SOPS's vary I'm interested if anyone is doing it any differently? Could you please elaborate.

Thank you

1999

[Sky Wave]

We go to a few airfields with stepped go-around procedures and we always set the initial stop altitude. 4000ft in your example.

[Capt Fathom]

25L ILS Missed Approach Procedure: Is this the one you're referring to?

There is NO requirement to maintain 4000'. 5000' is the Level to set.

Climb STRAIGHT AHEAD until passing FW Lctr and 4000', then turn LEFT to CHA VOR climbing to 5000'

Meaning....No turns below 4000' and no turns before FW Lctr.

In most jets, you will probably be level at 5000' before reaching FW Lctr.

[1999]

Thanx for the input guys ...and keep them comming


Capt Fathom .. thanx for the reply ..but i was reffering to the one bellow .. it should be the recent one :

[DBate]

Capt Fathom is absolutely right. Your initial MA altitude is 5000'.

Procedure text means that while climbing on R244 FFM you need at least 4000' at 8 DME FFM to turn. If you do not have at least 4000', you continue on R244 past 8 DME and then turn when passing 4000'.

8 DME FFM or 4000, whichever is later; LT to CHA, climb and maintain 5000

[1999]

Dbate .. thanx for your input ....

ALT Set 5000' - that was exactly my opinion in the debate we had here about the given procedure ....
But one of the Captains in the company ( where SOP says set GA altitude) claims 4000' should be set ...

So if you look at that chart again :

- would you then continue climb to 5000'( in case you would reach 4000' prior to 8 DME FFM )- while waiting for the 8NM DME mark and then turn L inbound CHA ; or

- would you wait with the climb to 5000' when commencing LT to CHA ?

[DBate]

If you reach 4000' prior 8 DME/R244 FFM you simply continue climbing to 5000' and start the turn towards CHA when passing 8 DME FFM.

The procedure says

...on R244 FFM to 8 DME FFM or 4000', whichever is later...

'

On the other hand, if they wanted you to level of at 4000', and then continue your climb to 5000' when passing 8 DME, the text would say

...On R244 FFM climb and maintain 4000. Passing 8 DME FFM LT to CHA and climb 5000...

Sometimes MA descriptions are complicated

Just for you to compare, here is the text for the MA taken from the chart we use (it is exactly the same layout as used on our charts):

25L:

249°
at 5.5 FFM LT
intercept R244 FFM
at D8 FFM or MNM 4000,
whichever is later,
LT direct CHA - climb 5000

And now the one for RWY 25R. Here the first initial MA altitude is 2500', and after passing FW you continue climbing to 5000'. When passing 9 DME FRD and having 5000' you turn to MTR (if you are not at 5000' when passing 9 DME FRD, continue straigt ahead past 9 DME FRD until you have 5000' and then turn to MTR).

25R:

249°
climb 2500 - at FW continue
climb 5000 - at D9 FRD
or 5000, whichever is later,
RT direct MTR

As you can see there is a clear difference in both procedures concerning the initial MA altitude. The MA for 25R requires you to maintain 2500 intially, and the text is accordingly.
The MA for 25L does not require the initial level off at 4000'. The initial altitude is 5000'. Im sorry to say, but your captain was mistaken in this case.

Regards
DBate

[1999]

DBate - thank you very much - for the thorough explanation

Beers on me

Take care guys


1999

[Sky Wave]

Having seen the plate, I agree that it should be 5000ft. There are some places where you have a stepped climb during the go around.