Information Aerodromes?
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Information Aerodromes?
When flying to an Aerodrome that provides an Information service (eg, Duxford or Northampton Sywell)
1)Do you have to request movements on the ground?
2)Once airbourne does it them become similar to a A/G radio airfiled (in that you tell them what you are doing)
Have been confused by these - could someone help?
1)Do you have to request movements on the ground?
2)Once airbourne does it them become similar to a A/G radio airfiled (in that you tell them what you are doing)
Have been confused by these - could someone help?
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1)Do you have to request movements on the ground?
on ground you receive only informations about wind,QNH and active runway.
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If it is an information airfield then of course there is no Air Traffic Control officer, and no clearances can be given so it is not appropriate to request one. However when you announce your intention to taxi, you are likely to be given pertinent information like "No known traffic to affect", or details of any traffic the radio operator thinks is likely to conflict with your intentions. He/she can give you good advice, but cannot clear you as they do not assume responsibility for ground movement or separation in the air: that is your responsibility until, for example, you enter controlled airspace, or get a higher level radar service.
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FISOs can issue instructions to aircraft on the ground, upto and including the holding point. It is upto the pilot to decide whether it is safe to comply.
They can also issue requests to aircraft in flight (e.g. report final), but these should not be interpreted as instructions.
This is the case in the UK at least, it may vary abroad.
CAP 413 explains it all.
They can also issue requests to aircraft in flight (e.g. report final), but these should not be interpreted as instructions.
This is the case in the UK at least, it may vary abroad.
CAP 413 explains it all.
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Cap 413
I think this is probably the relevant extract:
Flight Information Service (FIS) provided at an aerodrome is
a service to give information useful for the safe and efficient conduct of flights in the
Aerodrome Traffic Zone. From the information received pilots will be able to decide
the appropriate course of action to be taken to ensure the safety of flight. Generally,
the Flight Information Service Officer is not permitted to issue instructions or advice
to pilots of his own volition. However, in granting or refusing permission under Rule
35 and 36 of the Rules of the Air, FISOs at aerodromes are permitted to pass
instructions to vehicles and personnel operating on the manoeuvring area and
information and instructions to aircraft moving on the apron and specific parts of the
manoeuvring area. Elsewhere on the manoeuvring area and at all times in the air,
information only shall be passed to pilots. Further details on the passing of
instructions by FISOs at aerodromes are contained in CAP 410 Part B Aerodromes
a service to give information useful for the safe and efficient conduct of flights in the
Aerodrome Traffic Zone. From the information received pilots will be able to decide
the appropriate course of action to be taken to ensure the safety of flight. Generally,
the Flight Information Service Officer is not permitted to issue instructions or advice
to pilots of his own volition. However, in granting or refusing permission under Rule
35 and 36 of the Rules of the Air, FISOs at aerodromes are permitted to pass
instructions to vehicles and personnel operating on the manoeuvring area and
information and instructions to aircraft moving on the apron and specific parts of the
manoeuvring area. Elsewhere on the manoeuvring area and at all times in the air,
information only shall be passed to pilots. Further details on the passing of
Why do it if it's not fun?
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- no, on information field you don't have to request movements on ground
If it is an information airfield then of course there is no Air Traffic Control officer, and no clearances can be given so it is not appropriate to request one
G-mady, it's very rare to get wrong answers to totally factual questions from two different sources on PPRuNe, but in this case it's happened.
The document to reference is CAP 413, which is freely downloadable from the CAA's website, at http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP413.PDF.
Chapter 4, Section 2 contains everything you need to know about airfiels providing an AFISO. Table 1, on page 69 of the .PDF file, contains phraseology to be used by the AFISO, including:
"(Aircraft callsign) taxi holding point (designation) runway (designation) via (route)"
What's more, two pages later, in paragraph 2.3.3, there are examples of typical pilot/FISO RTF exchanges. The very first thing in this paragraph is an example of a call by an aircraft:
G-ABCD, request taxi instructions
Both these quotes are specifically related to airfields with AFIS, callsign Information, such as those you ask about.
If you're in any doubt, I suggest you ask your local friendly flying instructor!
FFF
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Inform everyone of everything you do, for which you would normally obtain clearance.
Ensure you know the "standard" circuit pattern, and join as everyone else expects you to do so, simply stating where you are, when, and what you are doing.
Easy.
Only thing you request is airfield information, runway in use, and radio checks.
Ensure you know the "standard" circuit pattern, and join as everyone else expects you to do so, simply stating where you are, when, and what you are doing.
Easy.
Only thing you request is airfield information, runway in use, and radio checks.
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In response to FFF's post - I think argument about the point is largely irrelevant. If someone is issuing useful information about the airfield, who but an idiot would not comply?
Would anyone ignore anyone who said "go-around" on the basis that the airfield is information only, and that no instructions are issued??
Easy answer is to find out what info is available on the radio, and what regular users of the airfield expect people to do in response. While it may not technically be an instruction (but instead is a request for info) to "report downwind", common sense means that you should be replying when people expect you to do so!!
Would anyone ignore anyone who said "go-around" on the basis that the airfield is information only, and that no instructions are issued??
Easy answer is to find out what info is available on the radio, and what regular users of the airfield expect people to do in response. While it may not technically be an instruction (but instead is a request for info) to "report downwind", common sense means that you should be replying when people expect you to do so!!
Why do it if it's not fun?
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Re-Heat,
Yes, I agree with your post entirely. In fact, CAP413 says something very similar. It says that the FISO may issue "requests" such as "report downwind", and although these are not instructions, it should be expected that most pilots would comply with them.
But that's in the air.
G-mady's first question related specifically to ground movements. Two incorrect replies both suggested that no clearance is required or can be given for ground movements. But the parts of CAP413 which I've quoted clearly show that a clearance is required on the ground, and a FISO can issue instructions to aircraft on the taxyways.
FFF
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Yes, I agree with your post entirely. In fact, CAP413 says something very similar. It says that the FISO may issue "requests" such as "report downwind", and although these are not instructions, it should be expected that most pilots would comply with them.
But that's in the air.
G-mady's first question related specifically to ground movements. Two incorrect replies both suggested that no clearance is required or can be given for ground movements. But the parts of CAP413 which I've quoted clearly show that a clearance is required on the ground, and a FISO can issue instructions to aircraft on the taxyways.
FFF
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Clearance, instruction or advice
Read this again:
Flight Information Service (FIS) provided at an aerodrome is
a service to give information useful for the safe and efficient conduct of flights in the
Aerodrome Traffic Zone. From the information received pilots will be able to decide
the appropriate course of action to be taken to ensure the safety of flight. Generally,
the Flight Information Service Officer is not permitted to issue instructions or advice
to pilots of his own volition. However, in granting or refusing permission under Rule
35 and 36 of the Rules of the Air, FISOs at aerodromes are permitted to pass
instructions to vehicles and personnel operating on the manoeuvring area and
information and instructions to aircraft moving on the apron and specific parts of the
manoeuvring area. Elsewhere on the manoeuvring area and at all times in the air,
information only shall be passed to pilots. Further details on the passing of
instructions by FISOs at aerodromes are contained in CAP 410 Part B AerodromesFlight Information Service (FIS) provided at an aerodrome is
a service to give information useful for the safe and efficient conduct of flights in the
Aerodrome Traffic Zone. From the information received pilots will be able to decide
the appropriate course of action to be taken to ensure the safety of flight. Generally,
the Flight Information Service Officer is not permitted to issue instructions or advice
to pilots of his own volition. However, in granting or refusing permission under Rule
35 and 36 of the Rules of the Air, FISOs at aerodromes are permitted to pass
instructions to vehicles and personnel operating on the manoeuvring area and
information and instructions to aircraft moving on the apron and specific parts of the
manoeuvring area. Elsewhere on the manoeuvring area and at all times in the air,
information only shall be passed to pilots. Further details on the passing of
Now tell me where a FISO issues a clearance of his own volition.
Why do it if it's not fun?
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FISOs at aerodromes are permitted to pass
instructions to vehicles and personnel operating on the manoeuvring area and
information and instructions to aircraft moving on the apron and specific parts of the
manoeuvring area
instructions to vehicles and personnel operating on the manoeuvring area and
information and instructions to aircraft moving on the apron and specific parts of the
manoeuvring area
FFF
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No emphasis required
I was talking about clearance, not instructions.
The original question was, in part, about requesting. Requesting a clearance is not the same as requesting an instruction.
However I agree my answer was misleading, and , yes, with hindsight unhelpful; rather than say that you would announce your intentions (which in practice is what happens at some airfields with a FISO - to which the reply "Roger, nothing known to affect" usually follows), I should have said "when requesting taxi instructions". I consider myself duly (heavily) corrected.
Nevertheless a clearance is not given, unless, as regards rule 35 and 36 rules of the air, it originates from an ATCO, usually subsequent to a flight plan, or to do with ATC compliance and procedure where applicable. It is still not given by the FISO under their own volition, rather passed on, if you will.
The original question was, in part, about requesting. Requesting a clearance is not the same as requesting an instruction.
However I agree my answer was misleading, and , yes, with hindsight unhelpful; rather than say that you would announce your intentions (which in practice is what happens at some airfields with a FISO - to which the reply "Roger, nothing known to affect" usually follows), I should have said "when requesting taxi instructions". I consider myself duly (heavily) corrected.
Nevertheless a clearance is not given, unless, as regards rule 35 and 36 rules of the air, it originates from an ATCO, usually subsequent to a flight plan, or to do with ATC compliance and procedure where applicable. It is still not given by the FISO under their own volition, rather passed on, if you will.
