Why the A380 wiggles rudder so much on landing
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Look Bomarc, this is getting farcical!
The problem there was not the Airbus, it was the person applying vastly excessive bootfuls of rudder to the extent the structure broke. The Airbus fin has never been any more of a problem, in fact less, than 737 rudder hardovers! And aren't we all still concerned about that little problem?
The chief problem of the A380 is NIH (Not Invented Here). It's a great aeroplane, and it's going to sell well, because it has the capacity, so let's stop nitpicking and admire it for what it is- the next step up. Boeing's baby, the 787, will sell well, but it's a medium capacity machine only. Let's not denigrate this fine piece of engineering with petty finger pointing Any minor faults will be cleared up just as the 747s were- maybe you don't remember, but that was a total disaster to begin with. The BOAC ones were not used for the first 18 months because of a pilot ban on them for industrial reasons. It gave BOAC the chance to make a fortune lending the engines to other operators who all had 747s grounded due to Pratt & Whitney JT9 engines failing all over the world. Can we remember DC10s grounded all over the world because of dangerous LE flap design? So the rudder waggles more than you would like? So it was flared 'sharply'? So it had crab on touchdown? I do sometimes! Yes....but isn't it great?
an airbus with rapid rudder movements in the vicinity of JFK...do we wonder about the A300 repeating itself on a massive scale?
The chief problem of the A380 is NIH (Not Invented Here). It's a great aeroplane, and it's going to sell well, because it has the capacity, so let's stop nitpicking and admire it for what it is- the next step up. Boeing's baby, the 787, will sell well, but it's a medium capacity machine only. Let's not denigrate this fine piece of engineering with petty finger pointing Any minor faults will be cleared up just as the 747s were- maybe you don't remember, but that was a total disaster to begin with. The BOAC ones were not used for the first 18 months because of a pilot ban on them for industrial reasons. It gave BOAC the chance to make a fortune lending the engines to other operators who all had 747s grounded due to Pratt & Whitney JT9 engines failing all over the world. Can we remember DC10s grounded all over the world because of dangerous LE flap design? So the rudder waggles more than you would like? So it was flared 'sharply'? So it had crab on touchdown? I do sometimes! Yes....but isn't it great?
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The A380 has huge longitudal stability due to the fuselage design.
Probaby more than the 747.
This requires a big rudder/big deflections.
Anyone got a link to the LAX landing?
EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ho8pMRHf0HQ
M
Probaby more than the 747.
This requires a big rudder/big deflections.
Anyone got a link to the LAX landing?
EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ho8pMRHf0HQ
M
Last edited by XPMorten; 20th Mar 2007 at 15:34.
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If I get the darn thing within 5 yards of the stripe without breaking anything, I'm pleased!
A380, with a few feet wider main landing gear, probably should not operate from Rand...
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fZK_mPM6tw
If you do a search on youtube, a few videos show the landing at LAX from a high vantage point. The touchdown seems does have a bit of a crab and slide, and the need for a large rudder input to keep her pointing true. Does not seem unusual for such a large aircraft. The video link above shows it in slow motion which is interesting...(excuse the title of the video please, not my doing)
If you do a search on youtube, a few videos show the landing at LAX from a high vantage point. The touchdown seems does have a bit of a crab and slide, and the need for a large rudder input to keep her pointing true. Does not seem unusual for such a large aircraft. The video link above shows it in slow motion which is interesting...(excuse the title of the video please, not my doing)
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That's it? That's what all this rabbit has been about? Utter nonsense these theories of thrust mismatch- it was touchdown! They were all at idle. The large rudder displacement to the left was quite correctly applied to counter a pronounced yaw to the right after touchdown. It corrected for it, the fin did not fall off, it was not a rudder hardover, the engines did not get excessively close to the ground, and the wing did not excessively bend. I don't know what caused the yaw, really quite minor- maybe a gust, maybe vortex from the preceding 747. It does not mean the program will fail!
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Not a big deal, agreed... a question was asked about the observed landing at LAX..and a few theories proposed...and finally the actual video which should put much of this to bed...I hardly think it amounts to a criticism at all, let alone a prediction/desire of a program failure for the A380...
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The rudder appeared to be neutral when the nose moved right. It is possible a brake grabbed, or the pilot's foot slipped on the brake pedal. The left rudder correction was of a speed and magnitude to suggest manual input.
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We observed the landing from feeds of the local news coverage - KTLA and ABC7.
Landed 24R, which is about 250 degrees magnetic. Winds at the time of touchdown were light. (5 kts WNW)
Had it been a passenger flight, those folks in the back would have surely felt that swinging about. Must have been fun up in the pointy end as well.
Big bird safely on the ground nonetheless.
Now that the meet and greet is complete, LAX only needs to complete improvements for the super jumbo.
To my eye the LAX touchdown looked like the right gear touched first and maybe failed to castor enough. causing the departure to the right. In any event It was definately not a standard touchdown.
Big bird safely on the ground nonetheless.
Now that the meet and greet is complete, LAX only needs to complete improvements for the super jumbo.
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Is it just me or is there an overt fascination on pPrune from some quarters in wanting the A380 to fail, and fail catastrophically? Even comparing it with the tragic events of the A300 over New York, fer chrissakes!
Ask yourselves how many hours in development and test this aircraft has done, and will do, before entry into service and take a look at the history of other new types before fleet introduction. Honestly.
I thought this site was more than the aviation equivalent of a tabloid newspaper website where arguments and discussions are reduced to the level of what manufacturer's badge is stuck on the side. Ridiculous.
Come on people, get a grip!
Ask yourselves how many hours in development and test this aircraft has done, and will do, before entry into service and take a look at the history of other new types before fleet introduction. Honestly.
I thought this site was more than the aviation equivalent of a tabloid newspaper website where arguments and discussions are reduced to the level of what manufacturer's badge is stuck on the side. Ridiculous.
Come on people, get a grip!
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Well said! I can't believe the level of comment here. A 'firm' landing seems to mean 'the program has severe problems'. We've had critical comment of engine ground clearance, the wing bending on touchdown (incidently, the graphic of the 787 in the latest Flight Intnl really shows a marked degree of wing bending), rudder waggling, yaw on touchdown. All I want to know is 'what was the electrical problem?', and how, having built something like the A340-600, was this allowed to impact the program to that degree.
Large wing bending is a factor in these new high-aspect ratio wings. I've noticed it in diagrams of the new 787, 380 and A350, and 747-800, where the wingtips will easily be able to say hello to each other in normal 1g flight. I think it will incite a lot of passenger comment when these things are common!
Large wing bending is a factor in these new high-aspect ratio wings. I've noticed it in diagrams of the new 787, 380 and A350, and 747-800, where the wingtips will easily be able to say hello to each other in normal 1g flight. I think it will incite a lot of passenger comment when these things are common!
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I believe the wiring issue was something to do with a disparity in the versions of wiring design toolsets the teams in France and Germany were using - I'm sure someone will know better, I'm only going off (at least) second hand information. I'm sure the issue is well understood in Airbus and has been or is being dealt with - I'm also confident they'll know why it caused such a delay to the programme but I don't personally and I'm not in a position to speculate.
No doubt it'll all come out in the wash.
No doubt it'll all come out in the wash.
