Manager Pilots

[Bandit650]

Whats the scope these days for pilots to operate in manager roles within airlines (alongside flying)? I'm aware Training Captains are one example, just wondering what other roles pilots sometimes get involved in, and to what extent is the concept airline specific?

Fleet operations, safety, drawing up/amending SOPS...there must be several roles open to flight crew. Particularly as today's flying is more about management than aviating (so I'm told anyway).

Would be very interested in hearing about typical non-flying functions pilots often get involved with.

Cheers.

[411A]

Well, for one thing, listening to the bit*hing and moaning from First Officers and (to a lesser extent) Flight Engineers about the lack of co-operation they sometimes find from the company.
Not all, you understand, just a few...the same few nearly always.
My reaction to these folks?
Well, when you joined, you asked for work, no?

Now, on the other hand, I have just found some additional business for my company, that will put one (possibly two) airplanes to work, year 'round.
Four to six crews as well.
And, then there are the maintenance recommendations.
A couple of large airlines (one was BA) operated the type with a 'no calendar limit' stipulation for certain heavy checks.
I have supplied this authorisation to the company so that they can approach the specific regulatory authority for a similar approval, subject to the CPCP requirements of the type.
All in all, I have earned my pay...and of course was justly rewarded with a hefty bonus.

[Big Tudor]

Bandit

Examples from airlines that I have been involved with in the UK are:

Full Time Positions
MD
Flight Ops Director
Chief Pilot
Regional Managers
Fleet managers
Chief Training Captain

Part Time
Base Manager
Tech Pilots
Flight Safety

Obviously the number of management positions is quite low in proportion to the total number of pilots employed so the opportunity to take up one of these roles is fairly limited. Typically for 500 pilots employed there would probably be no more than 10 full time positions.

[parabellum]

As an aside, we used to call management pilots 'Sea Gulls', if you want them to fly you have to throw stones at them!

[411A]

This is generally true, parabellum, in large airlines.
However, in smaller carriers, you will find that the management pilots fly a generally full schedule in addition to their office duties.
Is 90 hours/month enough, do you think?

[TheGorrilla]

And what about the b1t£hing from old has-been captains that companies don't want to upset because their war stories in the bar might dry up?? How many people (like one or two who've posted here already!) would be sorely missed by airline managers cos they're such great heros???

[Old Smokey]

I fly a fairly normal roster of flight operations, as well as manage and administer to all of the Performance Engineering work for one of our company's divisions (I do not do P/E work for my "own" aircraft). The latter generally takes up more time than the former, although there are (thankfully) sometimes lengthy periods of 'steady as she goes'.

I've found no conflict between the two, and one does become accustomed to 4 hours of sleep per day.

I suspect (but cannot be sure) that Mutt has a similar mix of flying and P/E duties.

Regards,

Old Smokey

[Old Smokey]

parabellum,

Your seagull definition is incomplete :

Seagulls -

(1) Won't fly unless you throw stones at them,
(2) Make loud screeching noises about nothing at all,
(3) Don't care who they ****e upon.

Regards,

Jonathan Livingston Smokey

[TheGorrilla]

Ummm.... Somebody round here posted that they earned their pay???? Yeah right!!

[flufdriver]

We are a small company, I do SMS and SEC and fly, 28 day ctrl. period typically 10 days office, 10 days off, 8 days flying, still find myself answering emails and sometimes working remotely on days off, cherish the flying more now.

getting ready for the next phase in life.

I pick all the right numbers for the lottery, but never at the right time!

fluf

[Bandit650]

Sorry, may I ask what SMS and SEC are?

[parabellum]

Thanks Smokey!

Our paths must have crossed at some time, I did ten years on the -400.

[Seat1APlease]

You have to be a bit careful.

We had a management F/O who not universally popular and was reporting for a late afternoon trip. The Captain started the paperwork and the F/O turned up a few minutes late apologising that he hadn't been able to get away from the office in time, as he had been in all day sorting out some difficult paperwork problem.


The Captain went round to crew scheduling and off-loaded the management F/O asking for a standby pilot, and pointing out that someone who had just done a full days work was of no use to him whatsoever at the start of a flying duty period.

He also pointed out that under the rules as they were written a minimum rest was a legal requirement before a flying duty, and that specifically excluded any duty "for or at the request of the company".

He thought he might get an invitation to discuss it, but he never heard another word about it.

[propaganda]

Seat1APlease,


That had to be BA....F/O's as trainers and managers @ 25 with attitude

[flufdriver]

SMS Safety-Management-System, all the rage nowadays
SEC/SEMS Security/Security Management System; a whole new industry!
Isnt IOSA wonderful? the career opportunities are endless! The airlines will go bankrupt trying to comply with all these new requirements, but we'll all be safe and secure.

fluf