Fog Bound At Cardiff
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Fog Bound At Cardiff
Can anyone explain why Fog should cause such chaos at Cardiff international. I have a daughter coming in on the BMI from Prague and she has been delayed some 5 hours and I've been told by Cardiff that the pilot will approach and may well decide to abort to BMX. Doesn't Cardiif have the equipment to assist you guys to land these aircraft in fog. I see BMi has cancelled most of their flights to Cardiff today.
Regards and Merry Christmas to all
GW3XJC roger Luke
Regards and Merry Christmas to all
GW3XJC roger Luke
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gw3xjc
Interesting choice of username!
Just for info, Cardiff airport is a Cat I ILS airport.
This means that ANY public transport aircraft is limited to 550meters minimum visibility in order to be allowed to even make an approach.
This is different from most other airports, where the limits may be as low as 200 meters! The reason is, Cardiff's position. One end is off a cliff of some magnitude, the other end has an undulating valley. Neither end therefore is suitable for an aircraft's Radio Altimeter to be totally reliable. This means that whereas other airfields will have a facility called ILS Category III, as their approach path is more over "level" ground, Cardiff's will never be that!!
Therefore bmibaby is restricted by the airfield's limits, rather than it's own! In fact the very same 737 could land in 200 meters right now in BHX (Birmingham) for instance where the category for the ILS is indeed Cat III and 200 meters!
Cheers - Captain xxx
Interesting choice of username!
Just for info, Cardiff airport is a Cat I ILS airport.
This means that ANY public transport aircraft is limited to 550meters minimum visibility in order to be allowed to even make an approach.
This is different from most other airports, where the limits may be as low as 200 meters! The reason is, Cardiff's position. One end is off a cliff of some magnitude, the other end has an undulating valley. Neither end therefore is suitable for an aircraft's Radio Altimeter to be totally reliable. This means that whereas other airfields will have a facility called ILS Category III, as their approach path is more over "level" ground, Cardiff's will never be that!!
Therefore bmibaby is restricted by the airfield's limits, rather than it's own! In fact the very same 737 could land in 200 meters right now in BHX (Birmingham) for instance where the category for the ILS is indeed Cat III and 200 meters!
Cheers - Captain xxx
Buzz off with BAF!!
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Can anyone explain why Fog should cause such chaos at Cardiff international. I have a daughter coming in on the BMI from Prague and she has been delayed some 5 hours and I've been told by Cardiff that the pilot will approach and may well decide to abort to BMX. Doesn't Cardiif have the equipment to assist you guys to land these aircraft in fog. I see BMi has cancelled most of their flights to Cardiff today.
Regards and Merry Christmas to all
GW3XJC roger Luke
Regards and Merry Christmas to all
GW3XJC roger Luke
Better your daughter is able to travel safely another day than perhaps have
all your Christmases ruined for the rest of your life. Be thankful that in
this country we have high operational standards, that is why air travel is
as safe as it is.
Have a happy and safe Christmas.
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I hope your dau makes BHX as the met forecast suggests the Midlands / S West will be fog bound by am but S East / LHR will be clearing. Be interesting to see if rail sticks to Xmas timetable or lays on extra trains. Either way someone's Christmas will be affected. Dealays are better than funerals!
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Delays are better than funerals!
Could you Imagine staff at BA putting that slogan on the departure and arrival boards in the terminals? That would be good for a laugh.
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Thanks for the replies
Thanks for the replies good people. There have been to many theories going around( in the layman world) as to why Cardiff could not operate in foggy conditions. Being a layman I wanted to put the record straight and you have done that for me.
BTW the user name GW3XJC is my Ham ardio callsign something I have had for nearly forty years now, i am one of the few that use morse on a regular basis. Merry Xmas to all Roger Luke
BTW the user name GW3XJC is my Ham ardio callsign something I have had for nearly forty years now, i am one of the few that use morse on a regular basis. Merry Xmas to all Roger Luke
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I suggest that you are only partly correct here. The BHX ILS is a full Cat 3 ILS indeed, the 737 can only take advantage of it down to 200m RVR (Visibility) whereas more capable aircraft (eg A320 family) can probably use it to 75m RVR. So in some aspects it is/can be the aircraft while at CWL it is the ILS itself.
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Welcome to modern aviation
Well, thousands of pilots use morse every day.
You want to make sure that the signals you are flying on are really coming from the beacon or approach facility that you think you are using.
So each NDB VOR and ILS has its own code transmitted. If you tune in LHR VOR you'll hear .-.. .... .-.
BTW Newer generation aircraft (747-400 and later) have some kind of built-in decoder so you actually don't have to listen to the ident but it's just on your displays.
Regards
You want to make sure that the signals you are flying on are really coming from the beacon or approach facility that you think you are using.
So each NDB VOR and ILS has its own code transmitted. If you tune in LHR VOR you'll hear .-.. .... .-.
BTW Newer generation aircraft (747-400 and later) have some kind of built-in decoder so you actually don't have to listen to the ident but it's just on your displays.
Regards
ex-Tanker
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callsign
First radio I ever built was a crystal set in a nutshell back in 1956. Picked up my neighbour G3FZH and not much else. Fortunately he used voice - in those days George 3 Fox Zero Honolulu!
Happy Christmas and hope your daughter makes it.
FC.
Happy Christmas and hope your daughter makes it.
FC.
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. The latter is just a continual screech to me
.If you manage to ever hear the LHR ident let me know, for years I thought it decoded as .-.. --- .-.
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When flying an approach in very low visibility, does it have to be performed automatically? or are you as a pilot able to fly it yourself on instruments?
If the landing is fully automated, do you still have to see the runway at the last moment to confirm it is safe to land?
Also, assuming you cannot see more than a quarter/half of the runway, are you relying on ATC to confirm the runway is clear? on a clear day, is it a combination of you and ATC that take responsibility for the runway being clear?
I flew back from the caribbean some years back on a 767-300 into dense fog at EGKK, pilot told us the landing was fully automatic, I think he made a point of telling us because it was unbelievably smooth, and the fog was such that no-one knew we were about to land until the reversers were engaged and we were on terra-firma !
Regards,
EGLD
If the landing is fully automated, do you still have to see the runway at the last moment to confirm it is safe to land?
Also, assuming you cannot see more than a quarter/half of the runway, are you relying on ATC to confirm the runway is clear? on a clear day, is it a combination of you and ATC that take responsibility for the runway being clear?
I flew back from the caribbean some years back on a 767-300 into dense fog at EGKK, pilot told us the landing was fully automatic, I think he made a point of telling us because it was unbelievably smooth, and the fog was such that no-one knew we were about to land until the reversers were engaged and we were on terra-firma !
Regards,
EGLD
It very much depends on the type of approach, aircraft, airfield, weather conditions etc. Using the autopilot helps with what is already a high workload in these circumstances and is usually mandatory on most aircaft in low visibility approaches.
For example the aircraft I fly can do a CATII landing with has a the typical minima of 100' with a runway visual range of 300m (varies for each airfield). If we become visual by decide, then the autopilot is taken out at 80' and a manual landing carried out.
Here's a CATII approach I made into BHX a few days ago http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9B5v8UOKAso
For a CATIII approach the autopilot needs to be capable of autoland.
ATC have stricter procedures in force in low visibility and we will not be cleared to land until they are sure that the runway is clear. Most major airfields have surface movement radar which allows them so see where the aircraft are on the ground. If not they have to wait until the previous aircraft calls runway vacated or airborne.
Hope that helps.
Merry Christmas
For example the aircraft I fly can do a CATII landing with has a the typical minima of 100' with a runway visual range of 300m (varies for each airfield). If we become visual by decide, then the autopilot is taken out at 80' and a manual landing carried out.
Here's a CATII approach I made into BHX a few days ago http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9B5v8UOKAso
For a CATIII approach the autopilot needs to be capable of autoland.
ATC have stricter procedures in force in low visibility and we will not be cleared to land until they are sure that the runway is clear. Most major airfields have surface movement radar which allows them so see where the aircraft are on the ground. If not they have to wait until the previous aircraft calls runway vacated or airborne.
Hope that helps.
Merry Christmas
Last edited by FlyboyUK; 23rd Dec 2006 at 12:37.
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Anyone any idea why flybe cancelled all flights last night out of Southampton but BA and AirFrance were still operating.
I'm not complaining just wondering what the answer is. Aircraft or Airline?
I'm not complaining just wondering what the answer is. Aircraft or Airline?
golfyankeesierra
"(747-400 and later) have some kind of built-in decoder so you actually don't have to listen to the ident but it's just on your displays" .....
Hmmmm
Hope you're not current 47-400 operating!! Yes, the 400 CAN give you a visual display of ident decodes - BUT, and it's a big BUT, relying on the auto decode may not be the ideal route to a long life!!
Boeing's manuals used to carry a pertinent caveat as to the possible unreliability of the auto decode and, as used to be standard advice - NEVER assume, CHECK
"(747-400 and later) have some kind of built-in decoder so you actually don't have to listen to the ident but it's just on your displays" .....
Hmmmm
Hope you're not current 47-400 operating!! Yes, the 400 CAN give you a visual display of ident decodes - BUT, and it's a big BUT, relying on the auto decode may not be the ideal route to a long life!!
Boeing's manuals used to carry a pertinent caveat as to the possible unreliability of the auto decode and, as used to be standard advice - NEVER assume, CHECK
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Wow!!! Thanks for all the replies and explainations i have certainly learned a lot. That landing in BHX was great, any more like that??
Re the morse I remember hearing the Cardiff beacons years ago, as i recall itwas on a very low freq. I remember I had a receiver called an R1155 which was an aircraft receiver from WW2. Re sending the morse, it is much easier to send rather than receive. The morse test I took was in 1968 in the Main Post Office in Cardiff. I was there sitting my 12 words pm test with some guys taking their sea going 25 wpm. Morse is no longer required for ham radio.
All very interesting guys, thanks for you input.
Its just turned christmas day here so i can now wish you a very merry Christmas from Wales. Roger Luke
Re the morse I remember hearing the Cardiff beacons years ago, as i recall itwas on a very low freq. I remember I had a receiver called an R1155 which was an aircraft receiver from WW2. Re sending the morse, it is much easier to send rather than receive. The morse test I took was in 1968 in the Main Post Office in Cardiff. I was there sitting my 12 words pm test with some guys taking their sea going 25 wpm. Morse is no longer required for ham radio.
All very interesting guys, thanks for you input.
Its just turned christmas day here so i can now wish you a very merry Christmas from Wales. Roger Luke
