logging time as PIC
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logging time as PIC
From Jar-FCL1.080 ,recording of flight time:
Logging PIC flight time..
A co-pilot acting as pilot-incommand
under the supervision of the
pilot-in-command on an aeroplane on
which more than one pilot is required
under the type certification of the
aeroplane or as required by JAR–OPS
provided such pilot-in-command time
under supervision (see (c)(5)) is
countersigned by the pilot-in-command.
(5) PICUS (Pilot-in-command under
supervision)
Provided that the method of supervision
is acceptable to the Authority, a co-pilot may
log as PIC flight time flown as PICUS, when
all of the duties and functions of PIC on that
flight were carried out, such that the
intervention of the PIC in the interest of safety
was not required.
I was asked yesterday by a FO if he can log time as PIC ,even he he has never been one,provided he is flying with a person agreed by the Authority to supervise him (ie TRE )? What do you think or know about this?
Brgds Alex
Logging PIC flight time..
A co-pilot acting as pilot-incommand
under the supervision of the
pilot-in-command on an aeroplane on
which more than one pilot is required
under the type certification of the
aeroplane or as required by JAR–OPS
provided such pilot-in-command time
under supervision (see (c)(5)) is
countersigned by the pilot-in-command.
(5) PICUS (Pilot-in-command under
supervision)
Provided that the method of supervision
is acceptable to the Authority, a co-pilot may
log as PIC flight time flown as PICUS, when
all of the duties and functions of PIC on that
flight were carried out, such that the
intervention of the PIC in the interest of safety
was not required.
I was asked yesterday by a FO if he can log time as PIC ,even he he has never been one,provided he is flying with a person agreed by the Authority to supervise him (ie TRE )? What do you think or know about this?
Brgds Alex
Only half a speed-brake
On various other pages in JAR you'd find further guidance. JAR rules: only approved co-pilot developement training programme as laid down in your OM-D. Both conditions apply.
UK standard - PF gets the PIC time, or PIC(US) time.
Is this an answer? Of course not.
UK standard - PF gets the PIC time, or PIC(US) time.
Is this an answer? Of course not.
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Flight Detent,can you give me a chapter reference for that rule about approved development program?
If PF gets PIC time,then any FO's hours are half PIC time (assuming they are doing half of the legs as PF ),and would they log those as PIC ?
In my area ,when you are promoted as cpt,you'll start flying with instructors ,LHS for a number of flights,all time logged as PICUS.All hours before that are FO hours,logged as such.
If PF gets PIC time,then any FO's hours are half PIC time (assuming they are doing half of the legs as PF ),and would they log those as PIC ?
In my area ,when you are promoted as cpt,you'll start flying with instructors ,LHS for a number of flights,all time logged as PICUS.All hours before that are FO hours,logged as such.
Alexban, you need to check with your trainning department to get the real answer.
According to JAR, pilots who don't have 250 PiC hours, required to get full ATPL, can log up to 150 hours of RHS time as PiCUS. The method of logging needs to be put down in OM-D and it has to be acceptable to licencing authority. Almost all aviation authorities are quite happy with logging F/O's PF time as PiCUS, no strings attached. However, some companies decide that their F/O's will not be upgraded soon and refuse to credit them with PiCUS time, in order to keep them less attractive for prospective new employers (most airlines require full ATPL for F/O newjoiners). So check your airline policy.
When you mentioned that your new captains log PiCUS, I thought for a moment that we work for same company, but your type showed me we're not. At my place, this is for cost saving - if you're not logging PiC, then you are on F/O's pay.
According to JAR, pilots who don't have 250 PiC hours, required to get full ATPL, can log up to 150 hours of RHS time as PiCUS. The method of logging needs to be put down in OM-D and it has to be acceptable to licencing authority. Almost all aviation authorities are quite happy with logging F/O's PF time as PiCUS, no strings attached. However, some companies decide that their F/O's will not be upgraded soon and refuse to credit them with PiCUS time, in order to keep them less attractive for prospective new employers (most airlines require full ATPL for F/O newjoiners). So check your airline policy.
When you mentioned that your new captains log PiCUS, I thought for a moment that we work for same company, but your type showed me we're not. At my place, this is for cost saving - if you're not logging PiC, then you are on F/O's pay.
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We had a look into that in our company.
Clandestino brought it to the point.
To be able to log time as PICUS you need to have a full and approved procedure in your training manual defining the conditions under which PICUS can be logged.
I haven't heard of an operator of JAR 25 aircraft having such procedures in place yet. Anybody knows?
We decided against that PICUS thing and will upgrade only at minimum 1'500 hours with proper command course line intro unfrozen ATPL etc. From then on you will log PIC and not PICUS. With the crediting towards unfreezing an ATPL and getting ready for command you should have enough PIC hours anyway. If it is really an asset to have total 1'700 hours and 1'500 hours as PICUS - I don't know. Phileas Fogg brought it to the point - what is the use of boosting your CV.
I'm looking forward to get the first step done 1'500 hours and unfreeze my ATPL (go,go, anothe couple months only
) then go for command and start adding PIC hours on JAR25 aircraft to the existing PIC hours on SEP and MEP in full agreement with Phileas Fogg about being honest. (I don't even add the SIM hours but show them separate)
Clandestino brought it to the point.
To be able to log time as PICUS you need to have a full and approved procedure in your training manual defining the conditions under which PICUS can be logged.
I haven't heard of an operator of JAR 25 aircraft having such procedures in place yet. Anybody knows?
We decided against that PICUS thing and will upgrade only at minimum 1'500 hours with proper command course line intro unfrozen ATPL etc. From then on you will log PIC and not PICUS. With the crediting towards unfreezing an ATPL and getting ready for command you should have enough PIC hours anyway. If it is really an asset to have total 1'700 hours and 1'500 hours as PICUS - I don't know. Phileas Fogg brought it to the point - what is the use of boosting your CV.
I'm looking forward to get the first step done 1'500 hours and unfreeze my ATPL (go,go, anothe couple months only
) then go for command and start adding PIC hours on JAR25 aircraft to the existing PIC hours on SEP and MEP in full agreement with Phileas Fogg about being honest. (I don't even add the SIM hours but show them separate)
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I'm just filling out my CAA (JAA) CPL/IR/ME application forms just now. Bloody hell its a minefield this, especially for people like me who have converted.
I used an electronic logbook but still am arsing about trying to get the correct totals.
Now here is one for all the regulations afficiandos . . . .
I already have an ICAO (in the form of a FAA) CPL/ME/IR and recently attained my JAA CPL/ME/IR in the UK (02-12-06). The question is this, can I log ferry flights, my CPL and IR skills tests as P1 (I sat my IR on 15-12-06) as I already hold a licence (abeit I'm flying a G registered aircraft opposed to a N) or is it P1s? One of the problems with owning a Jeppesen logbook.
Basically, can I log any time at all as P1 during my conversion training?
Also, I'm guessing the Jeppesen equivalents are as follows?:
P1 = PIC
P1s = Not designated
P1u/t = Dual
P2 = SIC
I used an electronic logbook but still am arsing about trying to get the correct totals.
Now here is one for all the regulations afficiandos . . . .
I already have an ICAO (in the form of a FAA) CPL/ME/IR and recently attained my JAA CPL/ME/IR in the UK (02-12-06). The question is this, can I log ferry flights, my CPL and IR skills tests as P1 (I sat my IR on 15-12-06) as I already hold a licence (abeit I'm flying a G registered aircraft opposed to a N) or is it P1s? One of the problems with owning a Jeppesen logbook.
Basically, can I log any time at all as P1 during my conversion training?
Also, I'm guessing the Jeppesen equivalents are as follows?:
P1 = PIC
P1s = Not designated
P1u/t = Dual
P2 = SIC
