Academic Equivalence of ATPL(H)
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Academic Equivalence of ATPL(H)
Would be grateful if anyone could tell me what the Academic Equivalence of a UK CAA ATPL(H) is in the UK. Is it equivalent to BSc, MSc or a Phd or beneath these qualifications.
Secondly, could any one give me references of where I can find the comparisons of Professional Pilots Licences with Academic degrees in the UK.
Secondly, could any one give me references of where I can find the comparisons of Professional Pilots Licences with Academic degrees in the UK.
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I have seen it said that an ATPL (fixed wing) is equivelant to a degree but I do not think there is anything official laid down. I would think the ATPL(H) will fall in the same place.
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A few years ago you could claim tax relief against studying for an ATPL as it was an NVQ. When I applied the documentation came through for NVQ level 4 which is about equivalent to a degree.
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Yes an NVQ level 4 takes the correct amount of time and has the same depth as a degree module(s). It is not however a degree in its own right, it just happens to be at the same level.
So in reality that means that if you had enough of these NVQs you could jump a year or two at university if you want to continue your education as you can with an HND.
There are five levels of NVQ:
* NVQ 1 - Foundation Level,
equivalent to 5 GCSE's grade D to E
* NVQ 2 - Intermediate level,
equivalent to 5 GCSE's grade A to C
* NVQ 3 - Advanced level, equivalent to A Levels
* NVQ 4 - HNC / HND / Degree Level
* NVQ 5 - Degree / Post Graduate level
As per this handy link
So in reality that means that if you had enough of these NVQs you could jump a year or two at university if you want to continue your education as you can with an HND.
There are five levels of NVQ:
* NVQ 1 - Foundation Level,
equivalent to 5 GCSE's grade D to E
* NVQ 2 - Intermediate level,
equivalent to 5 GCSE's grade A to C
* NVQ 3 - Advanced level, equivalent to A Levels
* NVQ 4 - HNC / HND / Degree Level
* NVQ 5 - Degree / Post Graduate level
As per this handy link
Last edited by mucatron; 12th Nov 2006 at 21:21.
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How about this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationa...ions_Framework
Level 4 Definately
Level 5 If we are being nice or you are TRI or TRE.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationa...ions_Framework
Level 4 Definately
Level 5 If we are being nice or you are TRI or TRE.
Psychophysiological entity
I think the course of the 60s was a little more...er, classical than these days. Really swinging a compass, and long hand written guff, so few if any, a-b-c-d answers until you got to the ARBs. That was a separately run department I recall.
When I was at Cass, there was a guy next to me that had just completed a physics degree at a good uni...and didn't think there was much difference in the general work. We were both struggling on the steep part of the curve. He said, "It's not that there is anything particularly complicated...it's just that there is so much of it.".
(did I get that second full stop right?)
And as for the ATP. As I have mentioned before, six working days in the UK translated into ONE HOUR + 30mins to check a few things over, but to be fair, that was after the former exams and some experience.
When I was at Cass, there was a guy next to me that had just completed a physics degree at a good uni...and didn't think there was much difference in the general work. We were both struggling on the steep part of the curve. He said, "It's not that there is anything particularly complicated...it's just that there is so much of it.".
(did I get that second full stop right?)
And as for the ATP. As I have mentioned before, six working days in the UK translated into ONE HOUR + 30mins to check a few things over, but to be fair, that was after the former exams and some experience.
If you look at the degree courses that include an ATPL within them, eg:-
http://www.city.ac.uk/ugrad/engineering/operations.html
http://www.londonmet.ac.uk/ug-prospe...operations.cfm
http://www.bcuc.ac.uk/default.aspx?page=129
the ATPL part equates to about 25% of the whole degree.
http://www.city.ac.uk/ugrad/engineering/operations.html
http://www.londonmet.ac.uk/ug-prospe...operations.cfm
http://www.bcuc.ac.uk/default.aspx?page=129
the ATPL part equates to about 25% of the whole degree.
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Not been listening?
It's the equivalent of 'some work' at degree level, nowhere near the amount of work that goes into a 3/4 year degree.
Can you really attain an ATPL without 'o' level math?
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Thoose that have already done a degree and have done the ATPL theory will say no. Which I am one of.
Those that haven't will try and justify that it is.
You never hear of the Nautical lot banging on about what there qualifications are. They have way more technical training compared to what we do. They are just proud of the skill set that they have.
A degree is just like cpl/ir ATPL theory passed it is a ticket to allow you to start a profession. Its a ticket to learn a set of professional skills. 1 day after you start your first job it means next to nothing in the grand scale of things. You are only as good as your last job.
Those that haven't will try and justify that it is.
You never hear of the Nautical lot banging on about what there qualifications are. They have way more technical training compared to what we do. They are just proud of the skill set that they have.
A degree is just like cpl/ir ATPL theory passed it is a ticket to allow you to start a profession. Its a ticket to learn a set of professional skills. 1 day after you start your first job it means next to nothing in the grand scale of things. You are only as good as your last job.
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You might find it easier to equate engineering licences to the degree. The academic side of the EASA(JAR) 66 are considerably larger than the ATPL, I should know I have an ATPL and a EASA part 66 B1. For engineering you need between 3 and 5 years training before you can even apply to do the exams.
Sorry - an ATPL is NOT even close to a degree in terms of content or time to qualification.
Not entirely sure why you would even want to compare the qualifications - I guess a potential employer could see an ATPL as demonstration of one's ability to learn - assuming a particular degree was not a prerequisite for the position.
I am surprised that an ATPL could even be equated to 25% of an undergraduate course load, let alone a Masters (comparisons to a PhD are just plain ludicrous).
Having said that though, it doesn't really matter as my airline job is so much more satisfying and lucrative than my degree based vocation. It also gives far more quality leisure time.
Not entirely sure why you would even want to compare the qualifications - I guess a potential employer could see an ATPL as demonstration of one's ability to learn - assuming a particular degree was not a prerequisite for the position.
I am surprised that an ATPL could even be equated to 25% of an undergraduate course load, let alone a Masters (comparisons to a PhD are just plain ludicrous).
Having said that though, it doesn't really matter as my airline job is so much more satisfying and lucrative than my degree based vocation. It also gives far more quality leisure time.
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Hi,
I'll just clear this one quickly.
1. ATPL is of University standard
2. Kingston University has the ATPL theory and CPL/IR for years 1 and 2 and the top up year fo a BSc in Aviation is year 3
3. This is the similar with the University College Buckingham Chilterns.
4. The University of Leeds also has a course, but I'm not sure exactly how this works.
So yes ATPL is of degree standard minus a top up year.
Hope this helps
I'll just clear this one quickly.
1. ATPL is of University standard
2. Kingston University has the ATPL theory and CPL/IR for years 1 and 2 and the top up year fo a BSc in Aviation is year 3
3. This is the similar with the University College Buckingham Chilterns.
4. The University of Leeds also has a course, but I'm not sure exactly how this works.
So yes ATPL is of degree standard minus a top up year.
Hope this helps
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just another
Ground loop - ATPL Theory is 25%, but pilot training is over two thirds.
esreverluf - You can get a degree for Commercial Pilot Training! a Frozen ATPL at Buckingham Chilterns minus 2 business papers or so.
in terms of time taken to complete an ATPL actually takes almost long as degree if you consider the following.
PPL average 60 hours this takes 3 months on average
100 hours between 2 and 4 months
ATPL Theory 33 weeks
CPL skills 1 month - 1 1/2
IR test 2 - 3 months
Minimum: 50 + weeks
Degree year:
Using univeristy time table
Oct - Dec 8 weeks just
End Jan - End March 8 week just
April - Mid May 3 weeks approx
toal year 1 19 weeks approx * 3 = 57 weeks
some degrees have no more than 6 hours lectures per week, compare this to 27 weeks of full time ATPL 9 - 4. And all courses take dedication and work at home.
I'm not saying that an ATPL is as hard as all degree, but there are degrees out there which couldn't compare to an ATPL.
Ground loop - ATPL Theory is 25%, but pilot training is over two thirds.
esreverluf - You can get a degree for Commercial Pilot Training! a Frozen ATPL at Buckingham Chilterns minus 2 business papers or so.
in terms of time taken to complete an ATPL actually takes almost long as degree if you consider the following.
PPL average 60 hours this takes 3 months on average
100 hours between 2 and 4 months
ATPL Theory 33 weeks
CPL skills 1 month - 1 1/2
IR test 2 - 3 months
Minimum: 50 + weeks
Degree year:
Using univeristy time table
Oct - Dec 8 weeks just
End Jan - End March 8 week just
April - Mid May 3 weeks approx
toal year 1 19 weeks approx * 3 = 57 weeks
some degrees have no more than 6 hours lectures per week, compare this to 27 weeks of full time ATPL 9 - 4. And all courses take dedication and work at home.
I'm not saying that an ATPL is as hard as all degree, but there are degrees out there which couldn't compare to an ATPL.
Last edited by planeshipcar; 14th Nov 2006 at 05:14.
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A degree is training you to think. Not do a pratical skill.
There are parts of it that require you to learn facts.
There are parts which require you to find information and interprate.
The are parts which require you to problem solve and present your arguments to your peers.
Its that last two requirments which the ATPL is lacking. Which is why it will never be a the same as a degree by its self.
And whats a degree minus the last "topup" year. Yep its not a degree at all. Its got you a plane old ATPL theory passed tick in a box.
And that's not even going down the argument about why the goverment decided to give university status to a load of hairdressing and welding colleges.
There are parts of it that require you to learn facts.
There are parts which require you to find information and interprate.
The are parts which require you to problem solve and present your arguments to your peers.
Its that last two requirments which the ATPL is lacking. Which is why it will never be a the same as a degree by its self.
And whats a degree minus the last "topup" year. Yep its not a degree at all. Its got you a plane old ATPL theory passed tick in a box.
And that's not even going down the argument about why the goverment decided to give university status to a load of hairdressing and welding colleges.
You might find it easier to equate engineering licences to the degree. The academic side of the EASA(JAR) 66 are considerably larger than the ATPL, I should know I have an ATPL and a EASA part 66 B1. For engineering you need between 3 and 5 years training before you can even apply to do the exams.
ATPL (ab-initio CPL/IR, Frozen ATPL) 1 year to complete.
EASA Part 66 B1 3 years to complete.
Numerous Universities are not willing to give academic credits for eithier course
