CRC Checks within aviation

[paul01942]

does anybody know why Eastern Europeans working within our English airports, are not required to obtain CRC checks to work within security area's? As we are all aware we have to obtain these checks by sending off to Disclosure Scotland to obtain them, only once your company has he forms cabn they progress and obtain you an airport ID pass!
I work at Manchester Airport where this is becoming an increasing problem! many companies are recruiting cheap Eastern European staff, can anyone explain to me why they do not require CRC checks and what can we do about it? as the situation is becoing very unfair!!!!!

[spannersatcx]

Because they have no records to check in the UK. Speaking with someone the other day who was collecting a new pass at a UK airport, he was behind a 'European' who had to have an interpreter with them as they could neither speak or understand English.

Amongst other things this has to be a Health and Safety hazard. i.e. you say to the caterer don't walk in front of the engine as it is running and they can not understand you. The next thing you are cleaning the ramp of his remains.

[BALLSOUT]

That's just unfair britain for you.
If your name is smith and you have a record for thumping someone who was trying to do you or your family harm, then chances are that you can't have a job in aviation as you are considered to be a security risk.

However if your name is Binladen and they have no records on you, you can have a job.

The world has gone mad!

[paul01942]

CRC Checks in Aviation

Now the debate is open don't you think as a community within aviation that we should all be doing something about this problem? we need pilots to voice concerns over the handling agents that employ the none CRC workers, in reference to having them around your aircraft! do you know really who they are?????

[cjhants]

foreign nationals DO have to take out a UK CRC as well as satifying all the referencing proceedures. the thing that is wrong with this rule is that if the person has only been in the UK 5 minutes, its not likely they will have a criminal record. so the CRC comes back clear, and mr/ms civil servant can then say they have followed the rules.
the UK government should ban all new residents from working at UK airports, on the basis that their backgrounds cannot be adequately verified. but this then puts them in a confrontation with the peoples democratic republic of EU who cry restraint of free movement of labour.

[W.R.A.I.T.H]

Originally Posted by cjhants

the UK government should ban all new residents from working at UK airports, on the basis that their backgrounds cannot be adequately verified. but this then puts them in a confrontation with the peoples democratic republic of EU who cry restraint of free movement of labour.

I think we could go on infinitely about what the UK government should do. However your suggestion is not sound as prohibits any EU resident to find a job in UK aviation at all, and i'm talking pilots, cc, atcos and everyone else. In that case I would like to see all remaining 24 states to impose the same restriction on british, don't think you guys would remain silent for long. What would be more practical is to connect state security clearance agencies across the EU and enable them to exchange records, yet better endorse their clearances on a reciprocal basis, just like JAA is supposed to work in licensing. A minimum standard to be drawn somewhere in Brussels for a security clearance agency to qualify and we're there. And this exactly has been discussed in Lahti couple of days ago, so hope we'll see some progress here.

Preventing megatons of polish, lithuanian and all other workers whose English is limited to a command of a 5yrs old and who are by no means interested in anything like integration, that's another thing however, quite painful and unpolicable. In a factory I took my summer job there were a lot of those guys, and more than half of them couldn't actually stand Britain, swearing and whining as they went all the day long. But then again there was also a guy from Iraq who proudly claimed that Osama is a good chap and it was just OK what he had done. Seems to me that the Home Office is not doing its job at all, so just wait for the other two countries to join in

[Scottie]

Originally Posted by paul01942

does anybody know why Eastern Europeans working within our English airports, are not required to obtain CRC checks to work within security area's? As we are all aware we have to obtain these checks by sending off to Disclosure Scotland to obtain them, only once your company has he forms cabn they progress and obtain you an airport ID pass!
I work at Manchester Airport where this is becoming an increasing problem! many companies are recruiting cheap Eastern European staff, can anyone explain to me why they do not require CRC checks and what can we do about it? as the situation is becoing very unfair!!!!!

Dunno about England. Is this an English policy? Presumably it's not a problem at Welsh, Northern Irish or Scottish Airports.

[Swedish Steve]

Be very careful what you want. I work for a British Airline in Europe. When mt mate or I go on holiday we have to get a relief from the UK to do our job. When I apply for an unescorted pass for this foreigner (who does not speak Swedish!) we apply to the local CRC agency (actually the CAA in Sweden) they fwd the checks to the relevant CRC, the one in Scotland for Brits. It takes about 6 weeks to come back.
If we are not careful the thousands of British Engineers working in Europe could be unemployable until they master the local language.

[rmac]

Thanks to the efficiency of communist bureacracy, most East European countries still retain very thorough background check systems on their citizens.

[click]

You better believe that one! Old habits die hard and acceptance of new things like 'democracy' and 'right to privacy' is superseded by the state's 'right to know'. Our association spent more than a year fighting the Czech government's implementation of the CRC which was based on the WRONG interpretation of an EU directive. It went all the way to the highest levels of the government and we still had a hell of a fight to have it abolished. Some troll in the Czech government dusted off a questionnaire that the former communist regime used for their clearances and happily passed it off as the new and improved version of a CRC. UNFORTUNATELY the EU directive set a minimum standard (which was met) and each country can go ahead and tighten the noose. The Czechs in their zeal insisted that there was nothing wrong with having the NBU (a Czech version of the US's NSA) do the background checks. We thought otherwise especially since close to 15 000 people had to be processed through a questionnaire that included questions such as "list all your contacts outside the Czech Republic", 'detailed financial statement listing all your possessions, your family possessions..etc. Explain your sexual orientation and your partners including your lover(s). The NBU eventually discredited itself with rampant corruption and influence peddling so it was generally more of an icing on the cake after we managed to change the law regarding the CRC. I can only say that had it not been through the intense pressure from the European Cockpit Association and the Skyteam partners, we would have been the most vetted pilots in the world.
Anecdotal evidence that we have gathered from the processes of secondary background checks......and draw your own conclusions:
A senior Captain on the longhaul fleet is called in to NBU HQ to explain his ability to fund his lifestyle (divorced and remarried while paying child support to wife #1 he is also putting his other kids through university). A flight attendant marries a French citizen after a long engagement. Her whole family called in for interviews and she is repeatedly grilled about his activities. Their reply to her objections was that...and I quote "France is a hotbed of terrorists" and that is enough! An FO spent close to 8 years in Germany working his nuts off to fund his dream and he gets refused his clearance unless he supplies his "MEDICAL" yes Virginia, his medical records from his time in the military service more than 10 years ago! A flight attendant must provide proof of who paid her way to England in 1994 to become an au pair. These are just the ones that I can remember but as distressed as most of us were during this process, I was very happy to find that we had a large number of brave individuals who refused to fill this piece of communist trash out and put their careers on the line for......freedom.
End of rant .

[cjhants]

W.R.A.I.T.H - i understand your comments, but perhaps i did not make my thoughts clear in my original post.

i am not objecting to labour from EC countries. but as an employer, who has gladly taken on excellent overseas workers, my concern is with the DfT, and the poorly thought out system of background checks. if UK citizens have to be thoroughly vetted to work airside, the same standard of vetting must be applied to all. it is apparent that the information on overseas workers is not always to the same standard as that required for UK citizens. so either we stop employing those from overseas until they can be properly vetted, or we relax the rules for all. in the current climate, i would suggest we need to be as thorough as possible in our vetting.

a CRC is only part of the overall vetting procedure, and does not prove the applicant is not a criminal or terrorist, only that they have not been caught yet.

[matkat]

This is utterly ridiculous, I work at a Norwegian airport and have had to get the disclosure scotland form so that I can get an ID why can these People not get a similar document from their authorities? if not then they should NOT be allowed to work in secure areas PERIOD.

[keel beam]

I thought you have to have at least 5 years of traceable records to obtain an airport pass in the UK?

[paul01942]

CRC Checks In Aviation

I think the comments coming in are excellent, hence the reason i started this debate! but before anyone job's on the racial bandwagon, i must point out that this is not aimed at swiping at foreign worker's, as the last post that was added has stated, there are some excellent EU workers amongst us! but the point is we all have to be on the same page,you cannot have a rule for one group of people, then another for someone else! you either administer the same ruling of strictness or you relax it for everybody, if we relax the rule we are leaving ourselves wide open to threats, the DFT needs to ensure that every single person working at an airport has a checkable CRC check wether they are from the UK or not! if people have NOTHING to hide then there should be no problems in doing them, thos that d have things to hide are better kept away from the airports

[paul01942]

CRC Checks In Aviation

It still is a 5 year checkable history to work at an aiport, sadly though it is aimed at certain people, here as other don't need to submit there history!!!! for us to get an ID pass at Manchester Airport, we have to send off to Disclosuer Scotland for the form at a cost of £15 approx until that form is received by the company and handed to secerity for processing we simply cannot work! it HAS to be the same across the board which at the moment its NOT!!!!! there has to be 1 set of guide lines which need to followed stringently!

[JamesA]

cjhants and W.R.A.I.T.H.
It is not a case of challenging 'the freedom to work in the EU', but where one may work in Europe. When I moved to work on the European mainland I had to get a security/ criminal check before I could have an airside pass at various airports. I still retained the right to work within the Community.

I fully agree any person, whether British or of any origin, wishing to work in a secure area should be able to provide details of his/her background. It is unfortunate if various authorities wishing to export their labour force are unwilling to give such information freely to whoever may require it for legitimate employment purposes. I find it frustrating trying to obtain information regarding potential employees.

[MarkD]

Can't see why foreign nationals shouldn't be required to produce a document that says they have no record in any country they have lived in for more than 12 months since they were 18. Canada requires this when you immigrate there.

[paul01942]

I great response to this debate, but to add a new twist! it was recently documented that a leading union body within the UK contact a local European MP, he was told exactly what was going on concerning CRC checks and foreign nationals, he was suprised at first commenting he had no idea that CRC checks were'nt being carried out, when approached again a few weeks later about this subject, the union was politely told that it was being looked at, but a complete D block was in place regarding this story! basically if this went story went to the Newspapers, TV or Radio it would be completely blocked from being aired or printed? this was based on the reaction from the general public! the question raised was "would passengers contiue to fly knowing this breaches of security?" its a fair comment and you can understand why there trying to protect the industry! ask yourself this how reassured would you feel knowing the people working around your aircraft were unknown, there history a mere figment of imagination? so the question i put to all of you that have been so kind to respond to this debate is, WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE? what can we as an industry do to safe guard a safe future?

[ianma]

I think you will find, that to work in as a security officer in any airport within the uk, everyone will fill out a CTC form. Which is a higher level of clearance than a CRC, i find it hard to belevie that Manchester Airport don't have officers cleared by the department for transport. I work for a british airport and i need to be ctc cleared. Also applicants applying from abroad will also have to do a Counter terrorism check before they start with in a airport as this is a department for transport requirement.