BALPA or not BALPA, that is the question?
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BALPA or not BALPA, that is the question?
I am currently a member of BALPA and have been for a good few years but I am getting a bit sick of my largest outgoing every month, that isn't my mortgage or council tax, going to a union that prides itself in sending me campaign literature and magazines that no doubt cost a small fortune to produce. What benefits do I see for my money? I'm really only in it for the legal cover, and I'd like to bet that a lot of other people are too. So will BALPA represent me legally no matter what the issue is? I'm lead to believe not (and that was from the mouth of the BALPA representative who recently came to speak to a course of new recruits at the company I work for). So, what are the alternatives? Who else will provide me with legal cover? Any ideas?
Which operator do you work for?
Do they recognise BALPA as a bargaining group?
What are your Terms and Conditions like?
How are you rostered?
Would you be "on your own" if called in to see the Chief pilot?
If you were involved in an incident (or heaven forbid) an accident, who would assist your family?
Answer some of those questions and then look around for the alternative. Then compare and contrast..................
Do they recognise BALPA as a bargaining group?
What are your Terms and Conditions like?
How are you rostered?
Would you be "on your own" if called in to see the Chief pilot?
If you were involved in an incident (or heaven forbid) an accident, who would assist your family?
Answer some of those questions and then look around for the alternative. Then compare and contrast..................
Join Date: Nov 2001
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I'm always confused about people saying that BALPA is too expensive.
Amongst all the shiney stuff they send out, is information that lets you know you can claim back 66% of your BALPA subs on you tax return.
Also they just negoiated an industry wide allowable expense of £950 per year to pay for flight bags, sunglasses etc.
Once you take all this into account BALPA is very affordable if not cheaper than any other option.
Amongst all the shiney stuff they send out, is information that lets you know you can claim back 66% of your BALPA subs on you tax return.
Also they just negoiated an industry wide allowable expense of £950 per year to pay for flight bags, sunglasses etc.
Once you take all this into account BALPA is very affordable if not cheaper than any other option.
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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It's a snip at the price knowing my @rse is covered if I screw up. I'd go so far as to say you will always be covered provided you take their advice.
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Thanks Captain Airclues. That was the information I needed. I appreciate what the rest of you are saying but I think that maybe you should open your eyes a little to what BALPA actually offer you. It's not as much as you think. I, as i'm sure are all other professional pilots, am grateful for the £950 per year, but I needn't be in BALPA to get that.
I would be very interested to hear from someone in BALPA who would say, categorically, that they would support me if something goes wrong. I can tell you now that people I have known of in the past went into that meeting with the chief pilot totally alone because BALPA wouldn't support them. I need to know that they'll be there for me. My lawyer is, why aren't they??
Who knows anything about IPA/IPF? Are they any good? Their legal cover seems reasonable but will they support me, should I (god forbid) ever need them?
I would be very interested to hear from someone in BALPA who would say, categorically, that they would support me if something goes wrong. I can tell you now that people I have known of in the past went into that meeting with the chief pilot totally alone because BALPA wouldn't support them. I need to know that they'll be there for me. My lawyer is, why aren't they??
Who knows anything about IPA/IPF? Are they any good? Their legal cover seems reasonable but will they support me, should I (god forbid) ever need them?
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The discussion re BALPA or the IPF is long drawn out especially in my company. (I work for the same one as Airclues).
I think that if you are operating within Europe then possibly the IPF may have a place. But operating long haul to countries that act first and ask questions later, I think you need the protection of an IFALPA affiliate, which the IPF is not.
I think that if you are operating within Europe then possibly the IPF may have a place. But operating long haul to countries that act first and ask questions later, I think you need the protection of an IFALPA affiliate, which the IPF is not.
There are some pros and cons about being in BALPA but what I like is that they are a part of IFALPA (thats the INTERNATIONAL Federation of Airline Pilots).
Many years ago when Swissair went of the end of the runway at Athens and the pilots were put in gaol it was IFALPA that go them out NOT their employer!
When the proverbial hits the fan you need someone who is "batting" for you and in my opinion this is the best reason to be a member and the subscription is a small price to pay for the insurance they offer.
Many years ago when Swissair went of the end of the runway at Athens and the pilots were put in gaol it was IFALPA that go them out NOT their employer!
When the proverbial hits the fan you need someone who is "batting" for you and in my opinion this is the best reason to be a member and the subscription is a small price to pay for the insurance they offer.
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What no FREA
I would be curious to hear from any UK commercial pilot that have been told they are not entitled to the FREA by HM revenue and customs. I appreciate its slightly off the thread but as BALPA are raving about how effective they've been at negotiating this addition to UK commercial pilots tax coding this might add to the debate better out or in to BALPA?
HMRC are touting the line that the FREA does not apply to police or HEMS pilots, HMRC see them as not having a high a public profile as a commercial fixed wing pilot, so therefore police or HEMS pilots don't have the uniform purchasing and cleaning expenses that the FREA is designed to compensate for.
On top of this HMRC are saying that commercial fixed wing pilots have to take meals at their crew positions so stand a greater chance of getting their uniforms dirtier than a police or HEMS pilot, adding to their greater expenses as experienced by commercial fixed wing pilots.
I'm led to believe that the FREA doesn't descriminate against all the UK rotary pilots as the North Sea pilots ARE permitted to have the FREA added to their tax coding, is this true?
Its only £950 on ones tax coding some might say but I'm curious in finding out how level the playing field is in the UK when it comes to commercial pilot tax coding and dealing with the various regional HMRC offices.
Cheers,
MS
HMRC are touting the line that the FREA does not apply to police or HEMS pilots, HMRC see them as not having a high a public profile as a commercial fixed wing pilot, so therefore police or HEMS pilots don't have the uniform purchasing and cleaning expenses that the FREA is designed to compensate for.
On top of this HMRC are saying that commercial fixed wing pilots have to take meals at their crew positions so stand a greater chance of getting their uniforms dirtier than a police or HEMS pilot, adding to their greater expenses as experienced by commercial fixed wing pilots.
I'm led to believe that the FREA doesn't descriminate against all the UK rotary pilots as the North Sea pilots ARE permitted to have the FREA added to their tax coding, is this true?
Its only £950 on ones tax coding some might say but I'm curious in finding out how level the playing field is in the UK when it comes to commercial pilot tax coding and dealing with the various regional HMRC offices.
Cheers,
MS
Tightgit
Minself.
I (a Police Pilot), have just had a discussion with my tax office today and (so far) they are happy that if I submit the letter that is on the BALPA website I will get the allowance. If I remember, I will come back to this thread and submit the final result. Personally speaking I think membership of BALPA is worthwhile.
I (a Police Pilot), have just had a discussion with my tax office today and (so far) they are happy that if I submit the letter that is on the BALPA website I will get the allowance. If I remember, I will come back to this thread and submit the final result. Personally speaking I think membership of BALPA is worthwhile.
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BALPA or not BALPA, that is the question?
I have been thinking about moving across to the IPA/IPF and when you see the pay deal that they negotiated for Astraeus (IMO - very good) - I doubt if BALPA could match the same deal considering BALPA seem to be more effective with dealing with larger operators and my company is fairly small.
I was told about the BALPA £950 allowance...... by a non BALPA member in my company. Says it all really! Legal cover is nice to have but the IPA/IPF seem to offer that as well for a snip of the price!
I do firmly believe that unless you work for a large, well established operator then BALPA simply doesn't offer value for money. The truth may hurt but that is how I and some of my colleagues feel, some of which have voted with their feet, and I understand why.
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You are right to consider the legal protection that BALPA can offer..They are also not obliged to take your case to court,as you suspect,the requirements would be that they have a reasonable chance of winning or it is a precedence case.However,the benefits of legal protection greatly outweigh the subs. Of course there are other companies that can give you legal protection,such as ALPL.their subs run to around £200 for £250,000 cover.The option of taking a case to court again lies with them.
To anyone who does not have legal protection.Get it Now! there is a really useful article in a recent Balpa log about your liabilty as a pilot and you may liable in ways you hadn`t realised.Even if you decide to change who you pay your subs too,don`t let it expire-Every pilot should have legal cover.
To anyone who does not have legal protection.Get it Now! there is a really useful article in a recent Balpa log about your liabilty as a pilot and you may liable in ways you hadn`t realised.Even if you decide to change who you pay your subs too,don`t let it expire-Every pilot should have legal cover.
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I too have had the same discussion re FREA with my local tax office. They couldn`t find any details at their end so asked if I could send them the details I received from BALPA.
Within a couple of days they sent everything back, allowing me the FREA of £950. They also stated that I did not have to be a member of the union to receive the FREA.
(BTW I am also a Police Pilot)
Within a couple of days they sent everything back, allowing me the FREA of £950. They also stated that I did not have to be a member of the union to receive the FREA.
(BTW I am also a Police Pilot)
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Thanks for your replies, IMO the HMRC policy on whether you get the FREA very much depends on which regional office does your tax and the persons understanding of your job and the different jobs within commercial aviation.
At the moment the Gloucester and North Wilts office are currently taking the line that I'm not a commercial pilot as the FREA applies, although I hold a JAR commercial license and I fly helicopters for a living.
They laughingly wrote to me saying that the FREA was designed to compensate for the extra costs that commercial airline pilots incur because of having to eat whilst at the controls of their aircraft, leading to extra cleaning cost!
Needless to say I gave them numerous examples where the FREA wasn't solely introduced to compensate for extra cleaning costs.
I think I'll have a battle on my hands with my HMRC office and getting the FREA granted to me.
BALPA are helping me with this so hopefully I'll see how much clout they can have.
I guess that playing field isn't that flat after all
At the moment the Gloucester and North Wilts office are currently taking the line that I'm not a commercial pilot as the FREA applies, although I hold a JAR commercial license and I fly helicopters for a living.
They laughingly wrote to me saying that the FREA was designed to compensate for the extra costs that commercial airline pilots incur because of having to eat whilst at the controls of their aircraft, leading to extra cleaning cost!
Needless to say I gave them numerous examples where the FREA wasn't solely introduced to compensate for extra cleaning costs.I think I'll have a battle on my hands with my HMRC office and getting the FREA granted to me.
BALPA are helping me with this so hopefully I'll see how much clout they can have.
I guess that playing field isn't that flat after all
Last edited by MINself; 6th Nov 2006 at 15:53. Reason: grammar
Plumbum Pendular
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If BALPA, at anytime in previous negotiations with your Company, have been responsible for at least 1% extra payrise (even if it has been spread out over those years) that you would not have got without their input then your BALPA subs will always be financially justified.
I would suggest that in all Companies that recognise BALPA that this is most likely to be the case.
I would suggest that in all Companies that recognise BALPA that this is most likely to be the case.
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So they get you a 1% payrise. Then they take extra from you as a subscription as your reward! No wonder they can afford glossy brochures.
Poor value for money; they won't be getting any of mine.
Poor value for money; they won't be getting any of mine.
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HMRC are touting the line that the FREA does not apply to police or HEMS pilots, HMRC see them as not having a high a public profile as a commercial fixed wing pilot, so therefore police or HEMS pilots don't have the uniform purchasing and cleaning expenses that the FREA is designed to compensate for.
thats my annual subscription further refunded (including the HMRC professional subscription tax relief)
Warning Toxic!
Disgusted of Tunbridge
Disgusted of Tunbridge
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3pointer- so they take 1% of the payrise they got you 'as a reward'? So if we are talking (for example) a 1% payrise, 1% of 1% is 1/10,000th. of your pay? Wow- big stuff!
I know some people will never be convinced, so don't worry about it, but I would suggest not publicising your poisonous attitude amongst people who would be happier or better served by being part of the association. I have seen determined 'stay outers' like you come to BALPA with their tails between their legs in desperate trouble, and you know what? To the ire of many, BALPA has frequently helped them, and rather late in the day, they have had this 'mystic revelation' that maybe BALPA ain't so bad after all.
But don't worry about it. Your conditions are immensely improved in the industry as a result of BALPA fighting on all fronts for its members, so if you can sneak off with the benefits without helping fund the organisation in any way- well that's you 1% better off a year, and you can ride on the back of your colleagues membership benefits, can't you? Good one, but very sad.
(I am not, and never have been, an officer of the association- just a loyal member since 1970. That's over one third of one year's pay altogether in subs....and worth every penny)
I know some people will never be convinced, so don't worry about it, but I would suggest not publicising your poisonous attitude amongst people who would be happier or better served by being part of the association. I have seen determined 'stay outers' like you come to BALPA with their tails between their legs in desperate trouble, and you know what? To the ire of many, BALPA has frequently helped them, and rather late in the day, they have had this 'mystic revelation' that maybe BALPA ain't so bad after all.
But don't worry about it. Your conditions are immensely improved in the industry as a result of BALPA fighting on all fronts for its members, so if you can sneak off with the benefits without helping fund the organisation in any way- well that's you 1% better off a year, and you can ride on the back of your colleagues membership benefits, can't you? Good one, but very sad.
(I am not, and never have been, an officer of the association- just a loyal member since 1970. That's over one third of one year's pay altogether in subs....and worth every penny)
.
