To declare or not declare an emergency?
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To declare or not declare an emergency?
Hello;
I am a fire officer working at an airport fire station. Lately we responded to three events. The first one was a Challenger with a stuck open nose gear bay door that was creating vibrations. The second event was a B727 with one engine out. The third one was a Canadair RJ with low oil pressure.
During these events the flight crews informed Tower about their problems and requested the fire department to stand by inside the fire station or to not show up at all. If the flight crew is taking the time to inform the Tower then it must be an abnormal situation.
The Transport canada Aeronautics Ops manual indicates that it is innapropriate to stand by inside the fire station (we are always on stand-by anyway). I understand that from a public relation point of view it is not good to have emergency equipment waiting for you besides the runway.
Our airport policy is to respond as soon as the Tower informs us about a problem. The school of thought behind this is : if they call us they need us.
Can you explain why the decision to declare, or not, an emergency is not as obvious as a non pilot could think?
I am a fire officer working at an airport fire station. Lately we responded to three events. The first one was a Challenger with a stuck open nose gear bay door that was creating vibrations. The second event was a B727 with one engine out. The third one was a Canadair RJ with low oil pressure.
During these events the flight crews informed Tower about their problems and requested the fire department to stand by inside the fire station or to not show up at all. If the flight crew is taking the time to inform the Tower then it must be an abnormal situation.
The Transport canada Aeronautics Ops manual indicates that it is innapropriate to stand by inside the fire station (we are always on stand-by anyway). I understand that from a public relation point of view it is not good to have emergency equipment waiting for you besides the runway.
Our airport policy is to respond as soon as the Tower informs us about a problem. The school of thought behind this is : if they call us they need us.
Can you explain why the decision to declare, or not, an emergency is not as obvious as a non pilot could think?
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Ottawa
I can't imagine why a pilot, in the middle of "a situation in which the outcome is unclear", (notice the way that is worded) would not declare an emergency. The only thought that comes to mind is maybe some pilots are afraid of the repercussions that may come from their company, or their governing agency if it turns out that pilot may have done something bone-headed to cause the malfunction in the first place.
Either way, I, for one, would rather have you out there and not need you than the other way around!
RDG
P.S. Thanks for your help in advance if I ever need you.
I can't imagine why a pilot, in the middle of "a situation in which the outcome is unclear", (notice the way that is worded) would not declare an emergency. The only thought that comes to mind is maybe some pilots are afraid of the repercussions that may come from their company, or their governing agency if it turns out that pilot may have done something bone-headed to cause the malfunction in the first place.
Either way, I, for one, would rather have you out there and not need you than the other way around!
RDG
P.S. Thanks for your help in advance if I ever need you.
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The first example wouldn't qualify as an emergency in my book unless there was an indication of further damage or I thought the door might detach. For a basic gear door stuck open there's certainly be no need for the fire services to attend. I don't know about the 727 but as a trijet flying on two engines again it may be unnecessary to declare an emergency. I suppose that would depend on the circumstances of the failure/rundown.The last example is, again, marginal. The low oil pressure is a single indication. In the absence of other indicators it may be that the sensor has failed rather than the oil system. In the first and last cases it may be that an emergency is declared in order to receive special handling from ATC rather than in anticipation of any sort of problem on the ground. At my home base (LHR) officially you should declare an emergency if you require special handling from ATC and that will send the airport fire services to a local standby whether or not the pilots think they need their assistance.
niknak
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Whenever a pilot declares an emergency in the UK the fire service will be out there, ready to deal with whatever situation may arise.
It's a shame that some pilots display such lack of professionalism in such circumstances.
Ohcirrej
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Paperwork for who Sunfish?
Chances are if something out of the ordinary such as the above is reported over the frequency, at the very least it will be recorded in the Watch Log/ Supervisor's Log on the ATC side.
From my experience here and the UK, pilots here in Canada aren't as willing/forthcoming in declaring Pan or Mayday (Note: I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing, just an observation)
Chances are if something out of the ordinary such as the above is reported over the frequency, at the very least it will be recorded in the Watch Log/ Supervisor's Log on the ATC side.
From my experience here and the UK, pilots here in Canada aren't as willing/forthcoming in declaring Pan or Mayday (Note: I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing, just an observation)
It seems normal practice in the UK for a local standby to called whenever any abnormal situation exists. I've come in on a local standby following a high oil temp on one engine of a twin aircraft. I've also seen a local standby called for an alternator failure on a PA28. I was told they turn out for these incidents as it keeps them in practice. In neither of the above cases was an emergency declared. In both cases ATC were advised of the situation to avoid prolonged orbiting.
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In my experience it's often the passenger-carrying flights that are reluctant to have fire crews surrounding the aircraft because of stress for the pax and the subsequent cr*p in the tabloids "Seconds From Disaster" etc etc. Freight crews, on the whole, seem much less bothered about being met by flashing blues.
Sometimes the call-out is very straightforward, and in the UK some situations have mandatory callout levels. Eg a hydraulic system failure or a 50% loss of engines mean a "Full Emergency" which is about halfway up the scale.
Indeed a callout is good practice anyway, for both the fire crews and ATC, for the (hopefully unlikely) situation when it goes really wrong and lives depend on the response.
Don't forget these days too, the legal liability and "duty of care" which would come into play if a pilot had declared a minor problem requiring no attendance, but an accident then occurred, and the RFF arrival was 90 secs longer than it could have been. I believe pilots know how to do their jobs properly. Unfortunately, so do claims lawyers these days.
Sometimes the call-out is very straightforward, and in the UK some situations have mandatory callout levels. Eg a hydraulic system failure or a 50% loss of engines mean a "Full Emergency" which is about halfway up the scale.
Indeed a callout is good practice anyway, for both the fire crews and ATC, for the (hopefully unlikely) situation when it goes really wrong and lives depend on the response.
Don't forget these days too, the legal liability and "duty of care" which would come into play if a pilot had declared a minor problem requiring no attendance, but an accident then occurred, and the RFF arrival was 90 secs longer than it could have been. I believe pilots know how to do their jobs properly. Unfortunately, so do claims lawyers these days.
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Last time I had a race with blue lights down the runway was when we had to return to our point of departure with gear which wouldn't retract. It stayed down, three greens. As this was "abnormal" we were chased by all the "Tonka Toys" the airport could muster. With less than three greens, OK. But we didn't have a problem but they still reacted as if we did to the point of insisting we call them (after they caught up with us) on 121.6 so that they could tell us that all was normal.
I have no problem calling these guys out "just in case" and when I have a problem I'll be really grateful for their assistance. I'll also participate any drills, exercises and training with pleasure. But if he choice was mine, I'd prefer them to be having lunch or playing pool rather than chasing a very slightly broken aircraft which has knowingly "failed safe" just because a manual says that they should.
I have no problem calling these guys out "just in case" and when I have a problem I'll be really grateful for their assistance. I'll also participate any drills, exercises and training with pleasure. But if he choice was mine, I'd prefer them to be having lunch or playing pool rather than chasing a very slightly broken aircraft which has knowingly "failed safe" just because a manual says that they should.
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Well it's all academic as far as I am concerned.
If a crew tells me they have a problem, then my SOP's dictate a particular course of action to be followed.
So if you don't want the fire crews attending, then don't tell ATC.
louby
If a crew tells me they have a problem, then my SOP's dictate a particular course of action to be followed.
So if you don't want the fire crews attending, then don't tell ATC.
louby
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An ATCO in LHR told me that, if you declare on the radio that you have some troubles with engine and landing gear the send out the fire brigade even if you didn't declare and emergency. For all the other cases the put the fire brigade on stan by.
Last but not least the send out the fire brigade every time thay heard a may day call.
Last but not least the send out the fire brigade every time thay heard a may day call.
Red On, Green On
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The aircraft commander should be declaring an emergency by following his company's SOPs. The response to the emergency should be in the SOPs of the airport operator. Since I doubt the fire chief tells the commander how to fly the aircraft, why should the commander be dictating the numbers and positioning of emergency vehicles?
Just imagine at the inquiry: "the aircraft commander told me not to roll the fire trucks, so they stayed put. That's why we were unable to rescue anybody from the scene when the fire took hold...."
Just imagine at the inquiry: "the aircraft commander told me not to roll the fire trucks, so they stayed put. That's why we were unable to rescue anybody from the scene when the fire took hold...."
