Do YOU have any DC3 tme?
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Do YOU have any DC3 tme?
I'd greatly appreciate hearing from any Ppruner who has DC3 flying experience.. even if it was many years ago. After almost 30 years professional flying, I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis in '97 and am now pretty much screwed up
in terms of impaired mobility and lazy right eye... (I'll leave out the badder, bowel, memory, palsy and other delights!)Despite having plenty of P1 jet, jetprop and rotary experience, I have never flown a tailwheel type.... but am now planning to spend my very last £1500 on an hour or so poling around in an Air Atlantique DC3 with an instructor.
For obvious financial and medical reasons a type-rating is out of the question.. but I would like some pointers and gen from someone who's familiar with the Dak. Many thanks and God bless you all. bm
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Not sure if this will help but this a/c has just started operating out of PER so if you check out their website you should be able to email them for some info
www.classicwings.com.au/
www.classicwings.com.au/
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The seating arrangement can be a bit uncomfortable if you're tall. Taxiing is done with brakes so kicking rudders just marks you as a tyro. The rudder is big and heavy so be gentle when stationary as you can easily bang it into the stops. Don't over control on the ground and remember the rotation is a gentle maneouvre with hardly any pitch change. You'll run out of speed very quickly if you over rotate. She's susceptible to gusts and crosswinds due to a very low wing loading. Over the fence at 84 kts for landing. Short field take off is fun with zero flap then one notch at 65 kts to make her balloon off. Be careful when changing tanks as the plumbing will be a bit ancient and the selector may not seat properly in the detent, leading to an engine cut when switching off the fuel booster. It's not a bad thing to wiggle the selector a bit to make sure it's in the right slot. She's a nice old lady but can be cranky. The engines take a bit more management than a turbine. The climb to the flight deck can be a bugger if the floor is slippery and you don't have soles that grip well.
Don't worry about it too much and enjoy the flight.
Don't worry about it too much and enjoy the flight.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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MEL - I think you will fare better in 'Questions' with this one, rather than JB, as SERIOUS pilots do not visit JB - er - ok, what was I doing there.....................???
Popping you over right now - Brace Brace...
Good luck!
Popping you over right now - Brace Brace...
Good luck!
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Yes, about 600 hours, mostly in Command.
SRT summed it up pretty well.
I always flew the approaches at 100 knots, 90 knots across the fence, and closed the throttles just prior to touchdown, with full flaps.
Wheel landings every time, for me.
I watched in amazement one day when one pilot touched down (wheel landing), used maximum braking, while holding the pole fully aft, stopped on a dime (with the tail still in the air) whereuopn the tail dropped with a thud onto the runway.
His forte, apparently.
SRT summed it up pretty well.
I always flew the approaches at 100 knots, 90 knots across the fence, and closed the throttles just prior to touchdown, with full flaps.
Wheel landings every time, for me.
I watched in amazement one day when one pilot touched down (wheel landing), used maximum braking, while holding the pole fully aft, stopped on a dime (with the tail still in the air) whereuopn the tail dropped with a thud onto the runway.
His forte, apparently.
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Wonderfull aircraft!
Did a lot of training in the 50s, and flew it during one year in "Postale de Nuit", flying every night over France with NO minima..........
I remember landing in fog at Montpellier Airport after 2 QDM approaches (VHF gonio) . What an experience!
And this one too: 360° vacating runwy 26 on runway 21 with some snow.....at Le Bourget.
No damage, Return to parking, checked everything OK.
A lot of training to engine failure on take off (upon these times training was done with a true failure: IDLE!) and flying on one engine, starting again on landing .......and pullup!
In normal operation, strong and reliable aircraft, but you had to rely on very good maintenance, because performances were so bad at heavy weight or in cruising flight in bad weather you cuold only hope both engines were OK.
Whatever uncomfortable it was my first commercial plane, I remember my instructor telling me :" Let me get off the plane and go around the field for one circle with F/E and the other trainees onboard", and I still LOVE it.
I remember landing in fog at Montpellier Airport after 2 QDM approaches (VHF gonio) . What an experience!
And this one too: 360° vacating runwy 26 on runway 21 with some snow.....at Le Bourget.
No damage, Return to parking, checked everything OK.
A lot of training to engine failure on take off (upon these times training was done with a true failure: IDLE!) and flying on one engine, starting again on landing .......and pullup!
In normal operation, strong and reliable aircraft, but you had to rely on very good maintenance, because performances were so bad at heavy weight or in cruising flight in bad weather you cuold only hope both engines were OK.
Whatever uncomfortable it was my first commercial plane, I remember my instructor telling me :" Let me get off the plane and go around the field for one circle with F/E and the other trainees onboard", and I still LOVE it.
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Proud to say that I have flown the DC-3. I have around 350 hours in the old beast. We owned one that used mostly for fun/party style flying. At the the time we owned it, 1979 through 1983 it flew about 500 hours. It was the lowest total time DC-3 still flying in the world, as far as we could determine. when we purchased the DC-3 it had less than 3,000 hours total airframe time.
We acquired the airplane in a strange around about way through the United States Navy from the Wriggle Company (the chewing gum folks). (A long story I will not get into now.)
The cockpit is not designed for a tall pilot, trust me. I had our maintenance people move the bulkhead and alcohol tank from behind the left seat and extend the pilot seat rails so I could have adequacy leg room, I'm 6' 5".
Our DC-3 had the 'Convair Style' brakes install and an FD-102 Collins Flight Director (very top hat for it's day).
The primary airspeed that I remember was 87 knots for everything. Takeoff at 87, over the fence at 87, in trouble, climb at 87.
The DC-3 was a very easy airplane to fly in gently winds, in fact I preferred wind of about 10 knots straight down the runway to calm winds.
One word of caution, do not rush to put the tail wheel down on the runway, trust me on this. A copilot did this to me and it was all a$$holes and elbows getting the beast back under control and back on the runway. (My buddies who were watching from the hangar thought it looked hilarious.)
Oh, one more word of caution, don't fly it in the rain. (Trust me.
)
We acquired the airplane in a strange around about way through the United States Navy from the Wriggle Company (the chewing gum folks). (A long story I will not get into now.)
The cockpit is not designed for a tall pilot, trust me. I had our maintenance people move the bulkhead and alcohol tank from behind the left seat and extend the pilot seat rails so I could have adequacy leg room, I'm 6' 5".
Our DC-3 had the 'Convair Style' brakes install and an FD-102 Collins Flight Director (very top hat for it's day).
The primary airspeed that I remember was 87 knots for everything. Takeoff at 87, over the fence at 87, in trouble, climb at 87.
The DC-3 was a very easy airplane to fly in gently winds, in fact I preferred wind of about 10 knots straight down the runway to calm winds.
One word of caution, do not rush to put the tail wheel down on the runway, trust me on this. A copilot did this to me and it was all a$$holes and elbows getting the beast back under control and back on the runway. (My buddies who were watching from the hangar thought it looked hilarious.)
Oh, one more word of caution, don't fly it in the rain. (Trust me.
)
Hi BM I wish you luck with the DC-3 adventure I was looking at this web site in the USA where you can fly there DC-3 thinking I would love to do that, the biggest thing I get to fly is my weightshift microlight anyway have a look here, I hope its not thought to be advertising
http://www.prairieaviationmuseum.org/
Regards from Nick.
http://www.prairieaviationmuseum.org/
Regards from Nick.
Well, I've got about 16 - 1800 hours on the aircraft, but you are correct in the respect that it was a long time ago. (30+ years)
It's pretty much as Rusty says. To begin, adjust the seat comfortably. If you will be doing any engine out work, adjust the fore-and-aft so you get full rudder throw with a leg position that is comfortable for you.
Engine starting is usually a breeze: props full forward, throttle cracked and mixture idle cut-off. Motor the engine over while giving it a few shots of prime, and after nine blades, hit the mags. Once it fires up, bring the mixtures up to auto-rich. On run-up, exercise the props at 1500 rpm and check the mags at 2000 rpm, if I remember correctly.
Taxiing isn't that big a deal unless you have a stiff crosswind. You have a lockable tailwheel at your disposal, so when you begin to taxi, once you have the aircraft tracking straight, lock it and the aircraft will track straight ahead. Remember to unlock the thing when you have to turn.
On take-off, allow the airplane to fly itself at around 80 - 85 kts. We used to climb at 500 fpm for the sake of the ear drums. The airplane flies well, but it's fairly heavy on the controls. The ailerons require quite a bit of input, as I recall. We did airwork at 120 kts. Steep turns are a joy. As you roll into the turn, ease the nose up about three degrees and hold it there with the elevator trim, or alternatively brace your elbows on the armrests. The controls are well coordinated so that only small amounts of rudder will keep the ball in the center. Once it's trimmed, the airplane is quite happy to go around in circles all day, hands off, kind of nodding a bit as you hit your sipstream at the end of the turn. Trying to force the airplane into a stall will open your eyes. There is no stall warning system, and there is very little warning before it drops a wing. Easing it into a stall, on the other hand, is very straightforward and normal stall recovery works great. If you do engine out work, use coarse rudder control to maintain straight flight, then crank in the rudder trim. The rudder trim is in an awkward position, under the throttle quadrant and requires some physical contortion to get to.
We used to use 105 kt on the approach, with about 90 kt over the fence. Always wheel landings, slightly tail low. When the mains touch, move the column ahead very slightly to pin the mains, and allow the tail to descend of its' own accord. Make sure you're pointed in the direction you want to go when the tail descends, and that the tail wheel is locked.
That's about what I remember from awhile ago. Air Atlantique will certainly have their own procedures that they'll want you to follow. God bless you, bm, and I admire your courage.
It's pretty much as Rusty says. To begin, adjust the seat comfortably. If you will be doing any engine out work, adjust the fore-and-aft so you get full rudder throw with a leg position that is comfortable for you.
Engine starting is usually a breeze: props full forward, throttle cracked and mixture idle cut-off. Motor the engine over while giving it a few shots of prime, and after nine blades, hit the mags. Once it fires up, bring the mixtures up to auto-rich. On run-up, exercise the props at 1500 rpm and check the mags at 2000 rpm, if I remember correctly.
Taxiing isn't that big a deal unless you have a stiff crosswind. You have a lockable tailwheel at your disposal, so when you begin to taxi, once you have the aircraft tracking straight, lock it and the aircraft will track straight ahead. Remember to unlock the thing when you have to turn.
On take-off, allow the airplane to fly itself at around 80 - 85 kts. We used to climb at 500 fpm for the sake of the ear drums. The airplane flies well, but it's fairly heavy on the controls. The ailerons require quite a bit of input, as I recall. We did airwork at 120 kts. Steep turns are a joy. As you roll into the turn, ease the nose up about three degrees and hold it there with the elevator trim, or alternatively brace your elbows on the armrests. The controls are well coordinated so that only small amounts of rudder will keep the ball in the center. Once it's trimmed, the airplane is quite happy to go around in circles all day, hands off, kind of nodding a bit as you hit your sipstream at the end of the turn. Trying to force the airplane into a stall will open your eyes. There is no stall warning system, and there is very little warning before it drops a wing. Easing it into a stall, on the other hand, is very straightforward and normal stall recovery works great. If you do engine out work, use coarse rudder control to maintain straight flight, then crank in the rudder trim. The rudder trim is in an awkward position, under the throttle quadrant and requires some physical contortion to get to.
We used to use 105 kt on the approach, with about 90 kt over the fence. Always wheel landings, slightly tail low. When the mains touch, move the column ahead very slightly to pin the mains, and allow the tail to descend of its' own accord. Make sure you're pointed in the direction you want to go when the tail descends, and that the tail wheel is locked.
That's about what I remember from awhile ago. Air Atlantique will certainly have their own procedures that they'll want you to follow. God bless you, bm, and I admire your courage.
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411A - that's not the way a short landing is done in a Gooney. You have to get the weight on the wheels early with full forward yoke immediately after a deliberate wheely touch down. Then you can then apply full braking bringing the old girl down to about 30 knots before controlling the tail wheel down with whatever elevator power is left. First time it is spectacular.
Yes, about 600 hours, mostly in Command.
I watched in amazement one day when one pilot touched down (wheel landing), used maximum braking, while holding the pole fully aft, stopped on a dime (with the tail still in the air) whereuopn the tail dropped with a thud onto the runway.
His forte, apparently.
I watched in amazement one day when one pilot touched down (wheel landing), used maximum braking, while holding the pole fully aft, stopped on a dime (with the tail still in the air) whereuopn the tail dropped with a thud onto the runway.
His forte, apparently.
Wheeler landing with full flaps. Slowed down with brakes, little power on, tail still up in flying position, slowed to taxi speed (tail still up) and turned off runway onto taxiway (tail still up), taxied a short distance and then GENTLY lowered the tail as I came to a stop.
Even the tower operator stopped mid-sentence.
Don't flame me. But it does look good. Power against brakes
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Slow Taxi
Brilliant! I've seen a bush pilot do that with a DHC-3 Otter, seemingly defying gravity right til infront of the hangar. Only he HAD to do it cuz the tail wheel was in shreds and locked!
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DC3 Time.... Thanks to you all..
Just a quick note to thank you all for your guidance and kind words. Am hoping to arrange the flight for late October and will let you know how I succeed/survive/die ! Thnx again...Mel
