Thoughts on CB penatration...
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2001
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From: Manchester, England
Thoughts on CB penatration...
Hi all, just after peoples thoughts on when our hands are tied and there is no other choice apart from the dreaded white knuckle flight through CB's. The main 2 schools of thought I've seen, are 1) to decend into nice thicker air say in the FL250 - 290 range and so giving a much better stall/buffet margin and reducing to turb penatation speed Or 2) Keep within opt cruise levels, only decending if safety of flight becomes in issue.
Upside of decending = much improved stall margin, big downside = Large hail stones FL250-290
Not decending = not as great stall margin, no or very little hail to contend with.
Six of one half a dozen of the other??
Over to you
Thanks
Upside of decending = much improved stall margin, big downside = Large hail stones FL250-290
Not decending = not as great stall margin, no or very little hail to contend with.
Six of one half a dozen of the other??
Over to you
Thanks
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 3,204
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From: Seattle
There's really only one answer: Don't do it!
A 180 may not be your boss' favorite maneuver, but it usually costs less than the mishap aftermath (or the hail damage repair, for that matter).
How many times have you REALLY been FORCED (i.e., NO other option) to fly through a thunderstorm?
A 180 may not be your boss' favorite maneuver, but it usually costs less than the mishap aftermath (or the hail damage repair, for that matter).
How many times have you REALLY been FORCED (i.e., NO other option) to fly through a thunderstorm?
Joined: Feb 2005
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From: Chamonix
I have to agree.
Even pushing through a band of CBs such as the ITCZ your can generally find/pick the path of least resistance, although sometimes you have to go 50,60+ miles off track. Ive only ever been 80nm off to aviod a band of CBs but have heard 140nm from an company.
Other tools:
Avoid flying downwind of the storm...a. more turb b. can get hailstones thrown from the top (in clear air)
Avoid at all costs the area 2/3rds the way up the CB. That is the point where up & downdraughts are tightly mixed at near their max vertical rate.
Individual cells only last 20-30mins (always exceptions)...perhaps you can wait it out?
The dissipating stage is the period of max down draughts & microbursts. Do not fly anywhere near the base. (Dissipating stage is characterised by heavy rain, hail or 'black' virga)
Just my 2p's worth.
Even pushing through a band of CBs such as the ITCZ your can generally find/pick the path of least resistance, although sometimes you have to go 50,60+ miles off track. Ive only ever been 80nm off to aviod a band of CBs but have heard 140nm from an company.
Other tools:
Avoid flying downwind of the storm...a. more turb b. can get hailstones thrown from the top (in clear air)
Avoid at all costs the area 2/3rds the way up the CB. That is the point where up & downdraughts are tightly mixed at near their max vertical rate.
Individual cells only last 20-30mins (always exceptions)...perhaps you can wait it out?
The dissipating stage is the period of max down draughts & microbursts. Do not fly anywhere near the base. (Dissipating stage is characterised by heavy rain, hail or 'black' virga)
Just my 2p's worth.
Warning Toxic!
Disgusted of Tunbridge
Disgusted of Tunbridge
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,011
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From: Hampshire, UK
I've never consciously gone through one and always avoided by going around them. My record was about 150 miles off track over the Bay of Bengal, but we still got around OK. A 747 flew into the top of one in the Far East at night and ended up at 90 degree bank and several passenger head imprints in the ceiling. There is always a way around. Don't ever go in!
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 171
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From: Manchester, England
All good stuff guys - I whole heartedly agree. Its comming up that time of year again (Northern hem) so its good to get peoples thoughts. I bloody hate going near them, as has been said, I also have had to go 80-100 miles off track to keep my dry cleaning bill to a minimum, not just from spilt coffee...
Anyone else with their ideas or stories I (and I would say most front seaters) would be glad to here from them.
Tight Slot
Anyone else with their ideas or stories I (and I would say most front seaters) would be glad to here from them.
Tight Slot
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,202
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From: Surrounding the localizer
I hate bloody things.....CB Alley (the adriatic..specially over the Croation Coast) is the place that fun and games ensue.
My record is about 100 miles..and this was over central spain, in an attempt to get down to Malaga..monsters they were that day!
I also saw the biggest CB Ive ever seen as we passed abeam it near Kano at night (Nigera I think) this thing was continually lit up, and we went past at FL370...barely half way up the frickin thing
My record is about 100 miles..and this was over central spain, in an attempt to get down to Malaga..monsters they were that day!
I also saw the biggest CB Ive ever seen as we passed abeam it near Kano at night (Nigera I think) this thing was continually lit up, and we went past at FL370...barely half way up the frickin thing
Joined: Jun 2004
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From: Australia
Actually, I think that they're rather beautiful.................if you keep your distance.
My largest diversion was 180 nm off track on a Brisbane to Melbourne flight, where the radar painted 'solid' on our left as we paralleled the line looking for a break. I was in the early stages of thinking that a turn-back might be a viable option when a teeny weeny hole (visual and radar) appeared on the left, which we headed for with great haste. As we passed through, 2 opposite direction traffic (one above and one below) zipped past us. Conversation between the three of us indicated that it was the only gap that any of us had seen.
I'd always thought of Australia as one of the greatest thunderstorm factorys, but the 'Mother of all thunderstorms' that I've ever seen are over Romania.
There's only one acceptable thunderstorm technique - Avoid, avoid, avoid! I've had to occasionally pick the 'softest spot' in a typhoon spiral, and even then the softest spot would put any Disneyland roller-coaster ride to shame.
Regards,
Old Smokey
My largest diversion was 180 nm off track on a Brisbane to Melbourne flight, where the radar painted 'solid' on our left as we paralleled the line looking for a break. I was in the early stages of thinking that a turn-back might be a viable option when a teeny weeny hole (visual and radar) appeared on the left, which we headed for with great haste. As we passed through, 2 opposite direction traffic (one above and one below) zipped past us. Conversation between the three of us indicated that it was the only gap that any of us had seen.
I'd always thought of Australia as one of the greatest thunderstorm factorys, but the 'Mother of all thunderstorms' that I've ever seen are over Romania.
There's only one acceptable thunderstorm technique - Avoid, avoid, avoid! I've had to occasionally pick the 'softest spot' in a typhoon spiral, and even then the softest spot would put any Disneyland roller-coaster ride to shame.
Regards,
Old Smokey
