IAF-no clearance
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IAF-no clearance
Hy.
While descending,with only clearance received to descent at FLXX,you reach the IAF ,and you got no further clearance from ATC.You are supposed to be transfered to APP before the IAF in order to receive the STAR clearance,but this does not happen (due to dif reasons) and you reach the IAF.
What are you supposed to do ,and where can I find this written,please?
I vote for holding over IAF ,but i had an argument about this with a fellow pilot,and I need to sort it out.
On some charts (i.e Lam Arr Heathrow) this is written-do not go beyound IAF without further clearance.But this is not specified on all arrival charts.Isn't this a standard procedure to follow?
Brgds
Alex
While descending,with only clearance received to descent at FLXX,you reach the IAF ,and you got no further clearance from ATC.You are supposed to be transfered to APP before the IAF in order to receive the STAR clearance,but this does not happen (due to dif reasons) and you reach the IAF.
What are you supposed to do ,and where can I find this written,please?
I vote for holding over IAF ,but i had an argument about this with a fellow pilot,and I need to sort it out.
On some charts (i.e Lam Arr Heathrow) this is written-do not go beyound IAF without further clearance.But this is not specified on all arrival charts.Isn't this a standard procedure to follow?
Brgds
Alex
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I'm surprised ,no answer yet.Maybe I wasn't clear enaugh
So,I approach the IAF,which is the last point on my flight plan,and i got no further clearance from ATC,or they delay changeover to APP.
What are we supposed to do,and where it's written?
On some charts (ex LHR charts ) it's specified not to fly beyound IAF without clearance.But this is not a general print on the STAR charts.
So,what will you do? Enter hold at the IAF? Follow in-use STAR?
Brgds
Alex
So,I approach the IAF,which is the last point on my flight plan,and i got no further clearance from ATC,or they delay changeover to APP.
What are we supposed to do,and where it's written?
On some charts (ex LHR charts ) it's specified not to fly beyound IAF without clearance.But this is not a general print on the STAR charts.
So,what will you do? Enter hold at the IAF? Follow in-use STAR?
Brgds
Alex
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Hy HD ,how are you? Indeed,I've got an answer in the ATCO section ,somehow incomplete,but I wanted to hear also pilots view about this,and also from other areas than GB FIR.
In other parts of the world, at t/d I ask to descent,receive clearance to descent to fL..,then ,short of IAF I'm being transfered to APP.No 'clearance limit' indicated by the controller untill then,so we had some cases when pilots flew past the IAF,on the 'expected' STAR ,before actually receiving the clearance to do it.
When I told them they should've hold,they asked me why? where it says so? It's nothing mentioned on the charts,so...
Brgds...Alex
In other parts of the world, at t/d I ask to descent,receive clearance to descent to fL..,then ,short of IAF I'm being transfered to APP.No 'clearance limit' indicated by the controller untill then,so we had some cases when pilots flew past the IAF,on the 'expected' STAR ,before actually receiving the clearance to do it.
When I told them they should've hold,they asked me why? where it says so? It's nothing mentioned on the charts,so...
Brgds...Alex
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If nothing specific mentioned on the STAR, don't start to hold if not told so by ATC in my opinion. ATC might be late giving you a clearance or just a slip of the mind. The last thing you want to do at that point is suddenly and unexpectedly change course 180 degrees, and maybe jeopardise separation.
Only my logical thinking...
However... IF the STAR says not to commence or proceed from a certain point unless cleared, then do hold.
Only my logical thinking...
However... IF the STAR says not to commence or proceed from a certain point unless cleared, then do hold.
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I don't quite understand the question...
First, a STAR normally ENDS at an IAF; it doesn't usually START at an IAF.
Second, you would normally have ATIS before reaching the IAF, and would also have an expected runway and/or approach. If you lose communications, hold at the IAF until your ETA or EAC. If you have been told to expect an approach on arrival at the IAF, squawk 7600 and continue the approach, unless there are other, airport-specific lost comm instructions.
First, a STAR normally ENDS at an IAF; it doesn't usually START at an IAF.
Second, you would normally have ATIS before reaching the IAF, and would also have an expected runway and/or approach. If you lose communications, hold at the IAF until your ETA or EAC. If you have been told to expect an approach on arrival at the IAF, squawk 7600 and continue the approach, unless there are other, airport-specific lost comm instructions.
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All getting a bit confusing here isn't it.
If you get to the IAF with no onward clearance, simply take up the hold and either await further clearance or continue as per comms failure procedures as appropriate.
If you get to the IAF with no onward clearance, simply take up the hold and either await further clearance or continue as per comms failure procedures as appropriate.
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My two cents
This is not such an unusual occurrence, your IAF situation is what I call a "Clearance Limit", without any further ATC instructions, my advice is to hold. 
D.L.
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I think I'm missing something here, as I wouldn't wait till I got there if I had no further clearance from ATC. I would be on the r/t about 10 miles before asking what they wanted me to do, and if no reply would already be prepared for the lost comms procedure by the time we arrived at the start of the STAR. It used to be called Captaincy!
BTW Intruder is correct, the IAF is at the end of the STAR - Initial Approach Fix - but the same principle applies there.
Happy Easter
BTW Intruder is correct, the IAF is at the end of the STAR - Initial Approach Fix - but the same principle applies there.
Happy Easter
IAF is the initial approach fix, a pre-defined point which is flown over at the start of the procedure, usually defining the difference between a hold and an approach. For instance, if you were doing a tac-ILS then you'd fly the hold x times as instructed then call approaching fix for procedure, then fly the procedure...
