Age 60 Banning Countries
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Age 60 Banning Countries
Which countries have a ban on 60+ Captains?
Where can one find out about which countries that have a ban on 60+ Commanders?
What would happen if an incident/accident occured?
Could the insurance company be denying coverage of the A/C?
As far as I know, India, France and the US are banning 60+ Cmdrs. Anymore countries?
Where can one find out about which countries that have a ban on 60+ Commanders?
What would happen if an incident/accident occured?
Could the insurance company be denying coverage of the A/C?
As far as I know, India, France and the US are banning 60+ Cmdrs. Anymore countries?
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Well remind me not to fly in the US (impossible), India Et. El.
When I board an airliner, I appreciate seeing some gray hair on my PIC (or in the case of hair coloration, some wrinkles please
)
Age is not always a big seller in Hollywood, but commercial aviation should treasure the 50+ group.
The old grizzled Cap can always guide the young enthusiastic FO if youthful strength or precision is needed - meanwhile my old guy knows his strength and well, precision is now an almost autonomic response for this guy.
When I board an airliner, I appreciate seeing some gray hair on my PIC (or in the case of hair coloration, some wrinkles please
)Age is not always a big seller in Hollywood, but commercial aviation should treasure the 50+ group.
The old grizzled Cap can always guide the young enthusiastic FO if youthful strength or precision is needed - meanwhile my old guy knows his strength and well, precision is now an almost autonomic response for this guy.
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"The thing about experience is once you get it you are too damm old to do anything about it."
If age is so wonderful why don't we see any old Shuttle commanders? I will tell you why because the average male reaches his physical peak at age 25. Do you really want some 60 year old taking care of your family at a busy dreary night at LHR? Take the emotion out of it and think about it, not about how little we are paid as pilots that have no pension. Older pilots (and people for that matter) need extra sleep don't think as fast and take up a disportionate amount of the sick time used by the pilot group. True that old pilots have a lot more experience than a 40 year old (in most cases) but experience does not always buy it.
If age is so wonderful why don't we see any old Shuttle commanders? I will tell you why because the average male reaches his physical peak at age 25. Do you really want some 60 year old taking care of your family at a busy dreary night at LHR? Take the emotion out of it and think about it, not about how little we are paid as pilots that have no pension. Older pilots (and people for that matter) need extra sleep don't think as fast and take up a disportionate amount of the sick time used by the pilot group. True that old pilots have a lot more experience than a 40 year old (in most cases) but experience does not always buy it.
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So LHR rain, are you speaking from 'experience', as an older person yourself, or are you using some other form of 'knowledge base' the rest of us are not privy to?
I don't think the shuttle provides much of a comparison, since most of their decisions are made for them (weather, serviceabilities etc.)!
I don't think the shuttle provides much of a comparison, since most of their decisions are made for them (weather, serviceabilities etc.)!
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Do a search of the posts by LHR Rain, especially on the middle east forum/DEC's at EK, for example, and one can clearly see the lack of maturity from which his thoughts occur.
Quite frankly, his prospects of moving to the LHS any time soon, seem slim indeed.
Quite frankly, his prospects of moving to the LHS any time soon, seem slim indeed.
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It's not because the average pilot in some countries are much older compared to their colleagues in the rest of the aviation world before they become captain, that this is supposed to be the standard.
There are a lot of very young captains in command of very big airliners travelling around the world doing the job as good as the old wrinckled ones. Additionaly, the much younger ones are more used (by training being not better, not worse) in using CRM and optimizing as much as possible to cooperation of the co-pilot (even the 200hr ones) and actually accepting his advice or recommendations to complete a certain task.
Young or old, we have good guys and some maybe not as good. It would just be a nice idea to get rid of the idea that you need 10000 hours total time and grey hair before you can apply for certain jobs/types/companies. Because this says nothing about a person/skill/experience.
If training is good and the guy has it, he's an as good operator as anybody else.
There are a lot of very young captains in command of very big airliners travelling around the world doing the job as good as the old wrinckled ones. Additionaly, the much younger ones are more used (by training being not better, not worse) in using CRM and optimizing as much as possible to cooperation of the co-pilot (even the 200hr ones) and actually accepting his advice or recommendations to complete a certain task.
Young or old, we have good guys and some maybe not as good. It would just be a nice idea to get rid of the idea that you need 10000 hours total time and grey hair before you can apply for certain jobs/types/companies. Because this says nothing about a person/skill/experience.
If training is good and the guy has it, he's an as good operator as anybody else.
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So ebbr2, you attach no value to experience? A large part of Command decision is judgement, which by its very nature is going to shaped by experience. So it follows that the more experience you have then the more it will influence your judgement. I know in my own case that I certainly have a different approach to many specific areas of a flight than I had earlier in my career before I experienced certain combinations of weather/approaches etc. I routinely see qualified pilots diverting around weather unnecessarily, or making approaches in questionable conditions, or even NOT making an approach when one is indeed possible. The difference is EXPERIENCE.
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The real arbiter should be the very competent statisticians in the insurance industry. THEY know the accident/incident rates of every age group, and are best equipped to suggest who sits in front and who sits in the back.
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Exactly KnackeredII, you're absolutely right. I also look at things different since I changed position. As an FO I learnt a lot of things, but also how not to do certain things.
I agree, maybe the more inexperienced guys divert around weather a bit sooner, but isn't that a good thing? How many planes have waited to long to divert around, haven't you seen the pictures of the orange brand aircraft or the canadian one? (with all respect for the pilots of these aircraft... I don't judge since I don't remember why it happened, it's just about what could happen if you end up in a storm)
Then about starting approaches when you can't or not starting one when you actually can? I'm really happy for you that you're so experienced that you can actually say that conditions are spot on to divert or not. Then, who says that those skippers are the young ones unless you are experienced enough to judge the age/experience by their voice on the radio.
My personal experience is that if somebody introduces himself with his name followed by the amount of hours he has....(I get scared then)
Experience is important, but you can actually gather a lot of experience when you're young.. and while you're a captain aswell, you just never stop learning.
I agree, maybe the more inexperienced guys divert around weather a bit sooner, but isn't that a good thing? How many planes have waited to long to divert around, haven't you seen the pictures of the orange brand aircraft or the canadian one? (with all respect for the pilots of these aircraft... I don't judge since I don't remember why it happened, it's just about what could happen if you end up in a storm)
Then about starting approaches when you can't or not starting one when you actually can? I'm really happy for you that you're so experienced that you can actually say that conditions are spot on to divert or not. Then, who says that those skippers are the young ones unless you are experienced enough to judge the age/experience by their voice on the radio.
My personal experience is that if somebody introduces himself with his name followed by the amount of hours he has....(I get scared then)
Experience is important, but you can actually gather a lot of experience when you're young.. and while you're a captain aswell, you just never stop learning.
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barit1
- we should all remember that the 'risk assessment' we are discussing here is to do with overflight/landing of/in CERTAIN COUNTRIES by 60+, not about operation by same EVERYWHERE else. As age 65 is accepted by JAR as the 'cut-off', where is the extra 'risk'? Any brokers/ risk-assessors care to explain?
The real arbiter should be the very competent statisticians in the insurance industry. THEY know the accident/incident rates of every age group, and are best equipped to suggest who sits in front and who sits in the back
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All of the Apollo pilots were under age 40 and most of the shuttle commanders were under 50. Yes one guy did get to command over 60, and they had a successful mission. Face it, as you get older you slow down. No question or debate about that one.
All I am saying is the age 60 is a good age. There is no reason to change the age just because some pilots gave up their pensions or what to pad their bank accounts.
All I am saying is the age 60 is a good age. There is no reason to change the age just because some pilots gave up their pensions or what to pad their bank accounts.
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<<There is no reason to change the age just because some pilots gave up their pensions or what to pad their bank accounts.>>
Quite right, LHR Rain, so indeed there is no reason to upgrade you, as clearly you don't need the dough.
Somehow suspect your management agrees, as the LHS gets further distant with each passing day.
Case closed....
Quite right, LHR Rain, so indeed there is no reason to upgrade you, as clearly you don't need the dough.
Somehow suspect your management agrees, as the LHS gets further distant with each passing day.
Case closed....
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Wrinkled or not
Hello Everybody,
when I followed this thread it was coming up in my mind, that in some airlines (like the one I flew for some years ago) put in pilots in command whenever they had need to, beeing a captain with 25 years may be makes you pride but I Žam not so shure about the mental age...sometimes.
Fact is that in this former company, the young captains accepted almost every pressure.Finally the company has pilots in relevant positions which never argued anything. e.g. if somebody offers you after a nightflight duty of 1400 hours with check in at 1900Z
at the evening before a flight on the day after a minimum resting period?? You do?Beeing a young eager, company minded pilot?? This is only one aspect of having old captains or not.
In my personal experience I can say that `older`fellows was always on the safe way, they do not fly visuals to prove they can do (they did it twenty years ago). Bye the way i am turning 41, but I have respect for the experience of my `old`fellows.
I wrote this because (like my nick says) who is able to fly 4 legs a day until he dies in an narrow cockpit with an steadily increasing workload?? Without fair company pension schemes?..and so on..
Guys, just a thing to think about,
nice flights,
4legsaday
when I followed this thread it was coming up in my mind, that in some airlines (like the one I flew for some years ago) put in pilots in command whenever they had need to, beeing a captain with 25 years may be makes you pride but I Žam not so shure about the mental age...sometimes.
Fact is that in this former company, the young captains accepted almost every pressure.Finally the company has pilots in relevant positions which never argued anything. e.g. if somebody offers you after a nightflight duty of 1400 hours with check in at 1900Z
at the evening before a flight on the day after a minimum resting period?? You do?Beeing a young eager, company minded pilot?? This is only one aspect of having old captains or not.
In my personal experience I can say that `older`fellows was always on the safe way, they do not fly visuals to prove they can do (they did it twenty years ago). Bye the way i am turning 41, but I have respect for the experience of my `old`fellows.
I wrote this because (like my nick says) who is able to fly 4 legs a day until he dies in an narrow cockpit with an steadily increasing workload?? Without fair company pension schemes?..and so on..
Guys, just a thing to think about,
nice flights,
4legsaday
