Very long runways
Very long runways
Reading Flight International this week I noticed that Istres (LFMI) near Marseille gets three mentions due to the use of its unusually long runway.
First as an emergency landing site for the space shuttle and also for unstick and RTO tests for the A380. A quick look in the “yellow book” shows a TODA on R/W33 of 4958m / 16266ft which is about 1000m longer than LHR!
I was wondering which are the longest runways in the world and why were they built so big?
S & L
First as an emergency landing site for the space shuttle and also for unstick and RTO tests for the A380. A quick look in the “yellow book” shows a TODA on R/W33 of 4958m / 16266ft which is about 1000m longer than LHR!
I was wondering which are the longest runways in the world and why were they built so big?
S & L
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Hello,
I believe Lajes in the Azores Islands ( Portugal ) is an emergency site for the Space Shuttle as well, cant remember the runway specifications, will try and find out.
I believe Lajes in the Azores Islands ( Portugal ) is an emergency site for the Space Shuttle as well, cant remember the runway specifications, will try and find out.
The book shows Lajes LDA as 3312m/10866ft. I expect that looks quite tight if you are in a shuttle !
I can see the reason for Lajes being long, as it is the only airfield for hundreds of miles, but what did they have in mind when they built Istres? or anywhere with over 3500m of runway.
I can see the reason for Lajes being long, as it is the only airfield for hundreds of miles, but what did they have in mind when they built Istres? or anywhere with over 3500m of runway.
The shuttle landing strip at the Kennedy space centre is pretty long. Can't quite remember how long bu the fact that it's known as 'the three mile runway' is a clue.
Istres is the French test facility - a bit like Farnborough was so I expect that is why it has so much runway. And runways of 4000m are common in the gulf. Landing a 747 classic freighter with steel brakes at MLW uses every inch!
Istres is the French test facility - a bit like Farnborough was so I expect that is why it has so much runway. And runways of 4000m are common in the gulf. Landing a 747 classic freighter with steel brakes at MLW uses every inch!
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Isn't there a shuttle alternative in Nigeria somewhere?
The one at Kennedy,
NASA Shuttle Landing Facility (X68)
15/33 is 15,000ft long and conforms to the curveture of the earth, difference of only centrimetres between each end, can't remember the exact figure.
The one at Kennedy,
NASA Shuttle Landing Facility (X68)
15/33 is 15,000ft long and conforms to the curveture of the earth, difference of only centrimetres between each end, can't remember the exact figure.
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Embraer's 'Gaviao Peixoto' test centre (SBGP) north of Sea Paolo, Brazil has a 16.295' runway 02/20.
ZUBD (Bangda, China - N30°33'21'' E097°06'24'') has a 4200m runway 14/32. Additionally, there is 60m stopway on the 14 threshold and 1500m of concrete designated as taxiway on the 32 threshold, giving approx. 5800m of concrete. (Airport elevation is 4334 m)
EoD
ZUBD (Bangda, China - N30°33'21'' E097°06'24'') has a 4200m runway 14/32. Additionally, there is 60m stopway on the 14 threshold and 1500m of concrete designated as taxiway on the 32 threshold, giving approx. 5800m of concrete. (Airport elevation is 4334 m)
EoD
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The Shuttle emergency runway in West Africa is Banjul, The Gambia although it is only 10,000 ft long - NASA has an equipment compound where all the support equipment is stored (non descript building/warehouse to the West of the cargo centre) and a special remote parking apron/area for the shuttle at the Eastern end of the rwy
Very long runways
There seems to be a shuttle alternate everywhere!
Ascension comes to mind on both counts, but the Russian Aviation Test Centre @ Zhukovsky (nr Moscow) has a runway which from memory is about 18,000 feet (+/- 5,400m) long and 120m wide - certainly looks it, and yes, it was built like that so !their space shuttle could land there in an emergency!
Ascension comes to mind on both counts, but the Russian Aviation Test Centre @ Zhukovsky (nr Moscow) has a runway which from memory is about 18,000 feet (+/- 5,400m) long and 120m wide - certainly looks it, and yes, it was built like that so !their space shuttle could land there in an emergency!
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The long runways appear to be for "hot and high" operations or at aircraft test facilities.
I asked a well connected friend a while ago about Shuttle landing sites and he passed on the request to colleagues in NASA. I cannot verify the accuracy but the reply was:
"There are TAL (Trans-oceanic Abort Landing) sites in Northern Africa and Spain. They are in place in case one or more Shuttle main engines fail during the first few minutes of the 8 1/2 minute climb to orbit. The two main TAL sites in Africa are Banjul in the Gambia and Ben Guerir in Morocco.
The TAL sites in Africa are used for low inclination orbits while sites in Spain support higher inclination orbits. Since all future Shuttle missions are to the ISS which is a 51.6 degree inclination orbit, only sites in Spain will see any TAL support requirements in the future. [This was written before Columbia was lost.] The
two main sites in Spain are Moron and Zaragosa.
. . .the TAL abort options disappear at about 5 1/2 minutes into the launch when AOA (Abort Once Around) and ATO (Abort To Orbit) become the prime options if a SSME [main engine] fails."
This info seems to be backed up on this site: http://www-pao.ksc.nasa.gov/kscpao/nasafact/tal.htm
I asked a well connected friend a while ago about Shuttle landing sites and he passed on the request to colleagues in NASA. I cannot verify the accuracy but the reply was:
"There are TAL (Trans-oceanic Abort Landing) sites in Northern Africa and Spain. They are in place in case one or more Shuttle main engines fail during the first few minutes of the 8 1/2 minute climb to orbit. The two main TAL sites in Africa are Banjul in the Gambia and Ben Guerir in Morocco.
The TAL sites in Africa are used for low inclination orbits while sites in Spain support higher inclination orbits. Since all future Shuttle missions are to the ISS which is a 51.6 degree inclination orbit, only sites in Spain will see any TAL support requirements in the future. [This was written before Columbia was lost.] The
two main sites in Spain are Moron and Zaragosa.
. . .the TAL abort options disappear at about 5 1/2 minutes into the launch when AOA (Abort Once Around) and ATO (Abort To Orbit) become the prime options if a SSME [main engine] fails."
This info seems to be backed up on this site: http://www-pao.ksc.nasa.gov/kscpao/nasafact/tal.htm
One of the Flight Intl articles mentioning Istres was to say that it has now been nominated as "the prime site for a TAL" due to "security concerns" ie terrorist threats at Ben Geurir, Morocco.
Moron and Zaragosa are both about 12,000ft long. Must have good brakes on the shuttle, anybody know what sort of Vref they use?
Moron and Zaragosa are both about 12,000ft long. Must have good brakes on the shuttle, anybody know what sort of Vref they use?
Leaving aside test sites or space shuttle alternates most airports built at or near sea-level have runways up to 4000m.
At 4000m any commercial airliner can take-off at any temperature (up to say 50c) at MTOW. Landing distances are almost always shorter as the aircraft is lighter.
Longer runways can be found but these are usually at elevations several thousand feet up where the thinner air causes a longer take-off run. Places like Johannesburg and Denver are good examples - the latter having runways up to 4900m (16000ft).
At 4000m any commercial airliner can take-off at any temperature (up to say 50c) at MTOW. Landing distances are almost always shorter as the aircraft is lighter.
Longer runways can be found but these are usually at elevations several thousand feet up where the thinner air causes a longer take-off run. Places like Johannesburg and Denver are good examples - the latter having runways up to 4900m (16000ft).
Can't quite see the relevance in a post above that the shuttle strip at Kennedy conforms to the curvature of the Earth. All runways do!
A perfectly level runway will actually be very slightly curved so that at any point on it the vertical defined by gravity will be at right angles to the runway surface i.e. a level runway follows the curvature of the Earth.
A perfectly level runway will actually be very slightly curved so that at any point on it the vertical defined by gravity will be at right angles to the runway surface i.e. a level runway follows the curvature of the Earth.
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I love to fly from Basel-Mulhouse LFSB
12'795 feet (3900 m)
No restrictions to a normal plane
Found it again. Looking for tech details on the shuttle?
http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/shuttle/...nce/index.html
and more specific for the landing:
http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/shuttle/...s/landing.html
have fun
12'795 feet (3900 m)
No restrictions to a normal plane
Found it again. Looking for tech details on the shuttle?
http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/shuttle/...nce/index.html
and more specific for the landing:
http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/shuttle/...s/landing.html
have fun
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Groundloop,
I see your point, I guess my post can be misundertstood. I mean't it's pefectly flat, as flat as the earth so to speak, no humps, dips or like the HMS Ark Royal.
I see your point, I guess my post can be misundertstood. I mean't it's pefectly flat, as flat as the earth so to speak, no humps, dips or like the HMS Ark Royal.
Lived in Qatar, Doha in 70s sem to remember the runway there was extrmely long-as a result of a who has the longest contest among gulf sheik(dom)s.
I thought it was 18000 ft
Remember flying in and out in Gulf Air F27 Friendships and they took an age either to fly over the unused bit on take off or to taxi to the terminal from where they slowed to taxi speed on landing
Anyone know how long it is
PB
I thought it was 18000 ft
Remember flying in and out in Gulf Air F27 Friendships and they took an age either to fly over the unused bit on take off or to taxi to the terminal from where they slowed to taxi speed on landing
Anyone know how long it is
PB
