Vehicles on the runway...
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Abu Dhabi
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Vehicles on the runway...
I have recently moved to the Middle East. Because of the heat during the day we gat a lot of rubber deposits from the landing aircraft....
Recently I was asked to clear aircraft to depart and land on the runway whilst people and vehicles where on the the runway threshold removing the rubber. (we only have 1 runway)
This info was included in the Atis and passed on by the Approach Controller. Papi's were switched off.
However it was a 'unique' experience for me to have personnel/vehicles on the runway at the same time as planes!
All the tower controllers were passed a verbal message to say this operation was ok by our immediate superior but all the paprwork failed to omit in black and white that it was ok for the vehicles and planes could be on the runway at the same time.
I have questions about the safety of this. Is this normal ops?? I have never experienced this before and wondered if this happens elsewhere...
Recently I was asked to clear aircraft to depart and land on the runway whilst people and vehicles where on the the runway threshold removing the rubber. (we only have 1 runway)
This info was included in the Atis and passed on by the Approach Controller. Papi's were switched off.
However it was a 'unique' experience for me to have personnel/vehicles on the runway at the same time as planes!
All the tower controllers were passed a verbal message to say this operation was ok by our immediate superior but all the paprwork failed to omit in black and white that it was ok for the vehicles and planes could be on the runway at the same time.
I have questions about the safety of this. Is this normal ops?? I have never experienced this before and wondered if this happens elsewhere...
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Down at the sharp pointy end, where all the weather is made.
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Absolutely definitely NOT! Good grief!!
You could make out a case for having a lookout that gets all vehicles and people to vacate to the outside edge of the Cleared & Graded Area whilst an a/c operates, but then only if ATC receive notification that this has happened before giving 'clear to land' to anyone. You could also have intersection departures provided a risk assessent and method statement had been put in writing first. We occasionally do this, typically with about 500 metres for 737/A320 departures up the runway from the works, but definitely NO landings over work on the runway or even in the undershoot by 2-300 metres. Landings/takeoffs towards WIP require not only TORA & TODA but also RESA up to the works.
Look at accidents with WIP in runways in Taiwan and the hampering of the aid effort when an a/c struck animals on a runway in Indonesia.
I know it's very difficult if you move to a job where there is a very different culture but it sounds significant that no-one's put the instruction in writing...
Cheers,
The Odd One
You could make out a case for having a lookout that gets all vehicles and people to vacate to the outside edge of the Cleared & Graded Area whilst an a/c operates, but then only if ATC receive notification that this has happened before giving 'clear to land' to anyone. You could also have intersection departures provided a risk assessent and method statement had been put in writing first. We occasionally do this, typically with about 500 metres for 737/A320 departures up the runway from the works, but definitely NO landings over work on the runway or even in the undershoot by 2-300 metres. Landings/takeoffs towards WIP require not only TORA & TODA but also RESA up to the works.
Look at accidents with WIP in runways in Taiwan and the hampering of the aid effort when an a/c struck animals on a runway in Indonesia.
I know it's very difficult if you move to a job where there is a very different culture but it sounds significant that no-one's put the instruction in writing...
Cheers,
The Odd One
Join Date: Apr 2002
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Absolutely not!
Aircraft performance on departure is based on a screen height of 15 feet over the threshold.
Which means there is a very good chance of disaster if there is some equipment there.
Let alone the possibility of overruns, undershoots on approach, localizer disturbances etc.
Aircraft performance on departure is based on a screen height of 15 feet over the threshold.
Which means there is a very good chance of disaster if there is some equipment there.
Let alone the possibility of overruns, undershoots on approach, localizer disturbances etc.
