Etops
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 47
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From: Ex FACT now EGLD
Etops
What makes an acft able to do ETOPS? Is there an SOP that makes a B737 or B777 able to fly further thank a non 'ETOPpped' acft of the same family?
I am assuming that all 777's can do ETOPS without mods but it is the crew training and SOPs that make the difference.
TIA
PPete
I am assuming that all 777's can do ETOPS without mods but it is the crew training and SOPs that make the difference.
TIA
PPete
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 149
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From: UK
I believe there are various elements of crew training and planning/procedures that differ from "normal" flights and etops flights, but the main element of etops approval is the aircraft obtaining etops certification.
The manufacturer has to prove, amongst other things, the reliability of the engines, especially when on single engine ops for extended periods of time (180mins, 207mins etc). Basically it has to prove that the chances of an engine failing are extremely remote, and if one does that the other can get the aircraft back.
The operator also has to have a satisfactory history as far as aircraft reliability/maintenance issues are concerned and that the crews are properly trained in etops.
The manufacturer has to prove, amongst other things, the reliability of the engines, especially when on single engine ops for extended periods of time (180mins, 207mins etc). Basically it has to prove that the chances of an engine failing are extremely remote, and if one does that the other can get the aircraft back.
The operator also has to have a satisfactory history as far as aircraft reliability/maintenance issues are concerned and that the crews are properly trained in etops.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 18,575
Likes: 4
From: UK
PP - I've moved this here as there is already a thread running here - .
A 'search' will also bring up a lot of cross-references.
A 'search' will also bring up a lot of cross-references.
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
From: Home for bewildered engineers
ETOPS Approval...now there's a subject that could occupy several threads.
Basically, if you're in Europe, the rules are currently in JAR-OPS, but the JAA will charge you money to read it.
AIUI, there are various aspects to approval :
# Aircraft Reliability (obvious really)
# Operator compliance (crew training, maintenance procedures, etc)
# Route Planning (aircraft performance planning, alternate airport capability, etc)
...but you specifically mentioned aircraft.
In the "old days", the aircraft/engine reliability aspect would be dependent upon xxx,000 hours of service experience with a suitably low IFSD rate. As you can guess, that was unpopular, and IIRC the B777 blazed an Early ETOPS methodology.
For that, a flight test aircraft carried out a year (?) of route proving flying, during which the reliability of aircraft systems was monitored. The engines were subject to both bench testing and route proving to winkle out powerplant problems. This was successful, and the B777 entered service with ETOPS "out-of-the-box".
NB : Aircraft ETOPS approval may be dependent upon the aircraft being of a certain mechanical standard. It's not unknown for a certain modification to be essential for ETOPS operations, but only optional for non-ETOPS routes. This will contribute to ETOPS / Non-ETOPS fleets.
Also, once achieved, ETOPS approval is reliant upon the reliability of the aircraft fleet, and there is considerable monitoring of aircraft / engine reliability, and close out of service problems / events.
Hope that helps.
Basically, if you're in Europe, the rules are currently in JAR-OPS, but the JAA will charge you money to read it.
AIUI, there are various aspects to approval :
# Aircraft Reliability (obvious really)
# Operator compliance (crew training, maintenance procedures, etc)
# Route Planning (aircraft performance planning, alternate airport capability, etc)
...but you specifically mentioned aircraft.
In the "old days", the aircraft/engine reliability aspect would be dependent upon xxx,000 hours of service experience with a suitably low IFSD rate. As you can guess, that was unpopular, and IIRC the B777 blazed an Early ETOPS methodology.
For that, a flight test aircraft carried out a year (?) of route proving flying, during which the reliability of aircraft systems was monitored. The engines were subject to both bench testing and route proving to winkle out powerplant problems. This was successful, and the B777 entered service with ETOPS "out-of-the-box".
NB : Aircraft ETOPS approval may be dependent upon the aircraft being of a certain mechanical standard. It's not unknown for a certain modification to be essential for ETOPS operations, but only optional for non-ETOPS routes. This will contribute to ETOPS / Non-ETOPS fleets.
Also, once achieved, ETOPS approval is reliant upon the reliability of the aircraft fleet, and there is considerable monitoring of aircraft / engine reliability, and close out of service problems / events.
Hope that helps.
