Ditch it like you should
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Ditch it like you should
Probebly a flogged horse but un-lucky with the search for this.
The Sudanese 767 that ditched yrs ago, was wing down. Is this a standard method for ditching a wide body? Heard there was a real reason.
Any help would be great.
Cheers all
The Sudanese 767 that ditched yrs ago, was wing down. Is this a standard method for ditching a wide body? Heard there was a real reason.
Any help would be great.
Cheers all
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If I recall correctly the aircraft had run out of fuel at the time, and while the crew was attempting a dead-stick ditching the Captain was being beaten about the head by a hijacker.
I think they did rather well, all things considered.
I think they did rather well, all things considered.
FX Guru
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A friend of mine was on that flight.
He didn't make it.
But I can tell you my friend's family had nothing but praise for the crew.
As the previous posters have said, the circumstances for the crew were arduous to say the least and SOPs didn't apply for this ditching.
He didn't make it.
But I can tell you my friend's family had nothing but praise for the crew.
As the previous posters have said, the circumstances for the crew were arduous to say the least and SOPs didn't apply for this ditching.
PPRuNeaholic
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I concur heartily with all the responses to date relating to a fight in the cockpit. I must say, however, that unless you've actually experienced a ditching canta, there is no way that you can pass judgement on the results.
I've ditched an aeroplane, back in 1987, and I'm sure there are a few others on this forum who've done the same, perhaps more recently. They are all different.
In my case, my view thru the windscreen for completely obscured by engine oil that covered the windscreen. It had been pumped out there thru the CSU of very popular a single engined aeroplane. The wings were, however, level immediately prior to contact with the water.
The problem was that the water was not smooth, though I had no way of knowing this as my view was seriously obstructed. Thus, the left wing struck a wave in the last second or two of the flare.
This experience won't have much in common with that of an airline crew in the same predicament, but it sure highlights the fact that no two ditchings are ever the same. It really doesn't matter what they look like from shore, or on TV, from the comfort of your lounge room TV screen, they are all very different when you have to contend with them personally.
I've ditched an aeroplane, back in 1987, and I'm sure there are a few others on this forum who've done the same, perhaps more recently. They are all different.
In my case, my view thru the windscreen for completely obscured by engine oil that covered the windscreen. It had been pumped out there thru the CSU of very popular a single engined aeroplane. The wings were, however, level immediately prior to contact with the water.
The problem was that the water was not smooth, though I had no way of knowing this as my view was seriously obstructed. Thus, the left wing struck a wave in the last second or two of the flare.
This experience won't have much in common with that of an airline crew in the same predicament, but it sure highlights the fact that no two ditchings are ever the same. It really doesn't matter what they look like from shore, or on TV, from the comfort of your lounge room TV screen, they are all very different when you have to contend with them personally.
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as i recall it was an Ethiopian 767-200 et-aiz.Capt had actually been hit over the head with an axe. damn fine job he did to get it down at all.he ended up with a medal for his deeds.
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This has been something i've wondered about for a while, so excuse the non aviation speak... But, how would most commercial aircraft fair with a sea ditching? I would've thought that on aircraft with underwing engines, the engines would hit the water before the body? If you could ditch so that both wings were exactly level, then wouldn't the rapid deacceleration the water would cause considerable damage? Or, if one engine hits the water before the other, this would cause the aircraft to slow on one side more than the other, causing the aircraft to 'spin'?
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They fare very well if ditched level without a wing digging in. The engines are designed to separate easily and be swept under the wing. The decceleration is relatively gentle- the aeroplane will be very light with probably little fuel. If not structurally broken by the impact, it will float like a cork. Several ditchings have occured like this, and even once, a DC8 was repaired and flying again.
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Thanks for clearing that up!
Are you relying on smooth seas for the landing? Or are you trained in varying conditions? Presumably you don't flare, as the tail will otherwise hit the water first?
Are you relying on smooth seas for the landing? Or are you trained in varying conditions? Presumably you don't flare, as the tail will otherwise hit the water first?
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I think that it varies enormously from aircraft to aircraft and it gets difficult to generalise. It is not usually part of the flight trials schedule to carry out an intentional trial ditching, so information is extrapolated from computer simulations or models in tanks, or whatever, and the simple answer is that nobody knows until somebody tries it for real. As real incidents occur, during the service life of the aircraft, a history gets built up.
I was told (so this story is apocryphal, but maybe someone on pprune can confirm it it) that Lockheed decided to carry out a planned trial ditching on the C130 as part of the proving process. Extremely sharp test pilots were briefed very carefully and it was all done under carefully controlled test conditions, having been thought about in advance. Despite all this, the aircraft broke up on impact and the pilots were both killed.
On the other hand, the hard word from the manufacturers on landing the (BAC) Lightning was that it could not be safely landed wheels up. The FRCs clearly stated that if you couldn't get the gear down, you ejected. However, one guy landed (completely unintentionally) wheels up. It was total unawareness. He just didn't realise. The aircraft settled down neatly on the runway with surprisingly little damage.
As Chuck Berry says - "You never can tell".
I was told (so this story is apocryphal, but maybe someone on pprune can confirm it it) that Lockheed decided to carry out a planned trial ditching on the C130 as part of the proving process. Extremely sharp test pilots were briefed very carefully and it was all done under carefully controlled test conditions, having been thought about in advance. Despite all this, the aircraft broke up on impact and the pilots were both killed.
On the other hand, the hard word from the manufacturers on landing the (BAC) Lightning was that it could not be safely landed wheels up. The FRCs clearly stated that if you couldn't get the gear down, you ejected. However, one guy landed (completely unintentionally) wheels up. It was total unawareness. He just didn't realise. The aircraft settled down neatly on the runway with surprisingly little damage.
As Chuck Berry says - "You never can tell".
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And, of course, "wings level" does not mean that the aeroplane is level. The secret is, as always, to try to touch down at the lowest possible speed. This is true for all types of aircraft and is vital in a ditching.
The aircraft is flared as for a normal landing, to reduce forward speed, so that the aeroplane will stop flying. If you do it right in a ditching, you will experience at least 2 impacts - first as the tail strikes the water and second as the nose comes down and also strikes the water.
I will be eternally grateful for that advice, which came to me via a book on the subject that was written many years before my own ditching. I got 3 impacts because the left wing hit a wave before the nose hit the water. Circumstances alter cases, but the basics remain the same.
It was probably just as well that I couldn't see directly ahead of me at the time, because the aforementioned book went into great detail about how to land when swells are prominent! I hadn't studied that chapter as diligently as I'd studied the rest of it...
The aircraft is flared as for a normal landing, to reduce forward speed, so that the aeroplane will stop flying. If you do it right in a ditching, you will experience at least 2 impacts - first as the tail strikes the water and second as the nose comes down and also strikes the water.
I will be eternally grateful for that advice, which came to me via a book on the subject that was written many years before my own ditching. I got 3 impacts because the left wing hit a wave before the nose hit the water. Circumstances alter cases, but the basics remain the same.
It was probably just as well that I couldn't see directly ahead of me at the time, because the aforementioned book went into great detail about how to land when swells are prominent! I hadn't studied that chapter as diligently as I'd studied the rest of it...
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Yes you want to be slow, obviously, but I am not sure that you want to overdo it. The results from the Concorde ditching tests, using models in a tank at Hythe, showed that if you slowed down too much the pitch attitude increased and the aircraft slapped down and broke its back on splashdown. Concorde was obviously a special case because it had no stall speed in the conventional sense. Nevertheless, it is probably not a good idea to lop more than 5 or 10 knots off the usual approach speed to avoid trying to execute the landing of your life in an unfamiliar and unhelpful attitude.
From time to time people suggest deleting the life jackets that Cynthia has to demo before takeoff. However, the fact is that ditchings do occur now and again. Most commonly this is due to over-running the runway. Personally I take the threat seriously enough to grope around under the seat and make sure I know where the jacket is.
From time to time people suggest deleting the life jackets that Cynthia has to demo before takeoff. However, the fact is that ditchings do occur now and again. Most commonly this is due to over-running the runway. Personally I take the threat seriously enough to grope around under the seat and make sure I know where the jacket is.
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I believe this link was already posted somewhere in PPRUNE, but it's worth posting it again:
Ditching Myths Torpedoed: http://www.equipped.com/ditchingmyths.htm
Ditching Myths Torpedoed: http://www.equipped.com/ditchingmyths.htm
Alba Gu Brath
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BBC On This Day
By a strange coincidence it is 8 years ago today since this incident happened. A pretty good write up about it on the BBC website.
By a strange coincidence it is 8 years ago today since this incident happened. A pretty good write up about it on the BBC website.
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VC10 training back in the 70s was very deep about ditching. Vickers had done extensive trials involving a long tank and a beautiful model about 10 feet across, with stressed engines. In the event of large waves, the advice was into wind and along the primary swell so you didn't bounce from wave to wave breaking up. Low speed and keeping the wingtips out as long as possible was the secret. From the trials, even in heavy swell, technique could save you.
