How many stripes does a second officer and a first officer has on their sleeves?
Join Date: Apr 2004
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There are a lot of variables.
In general, a captain has four stripes, an F/O three, and a S/O (Flight Engineer) would have two.
In the US, when we still had lots of professional flight engineers (who were not pilots and could not fly,) the two stripe was the norm. Most of those jobs are distant memories. About 40 -50 years ago, airlines in the US started hiring pilots to act as flight engineers as an entry-level position. Usually, those pilot-qualified flight engineers would wear three stripes also, even though acting as S/O.
In this day and age of shrinking airlines, many times you will see an F/O wearing four stripes. This is usually because the pilots WAS a captain at one time, but can no longer hold a captain seat due to seniority issues. In this case, you can usually identify the captain by the decoration on his hat brim. The F/O will normally wear a plain brimmed hat.
But not all airlines work this way, and it also varies by country. And sometime you may see someone with two stripes who is a flight attendant, with or without a hat. In short, there are no hard and fast rules. I hope this helped and didn't just confuse the matter entirely.
In general, a captain has four stripes, an F/O three, and a S/O (Flight Engineer) would have two.
In the US, when we still had lots of professional flight engineers (who were not pilots and could not fly,) the two stripe was the norm. Most of those jobs are distant memories. About 40 -50 years ago, airlines in the US started hiring pilots to act as flight engineers as an entry-level position. Usually, those pilot-qualified flight engineers would wear three stripes also, even though acting as S/O.
In this day and age of shrinking airlines, many times you will see an F/O wearing four stripes. This is usually because the pilots WAS a captain at one time, but can no longer hold a captain seat due to seniority issues. In this case, you can usually identify the captain by the decoration on his hat brim. The F/O will normally wear a plain brimmed hat.
But not all airlines work this way, and it also varies by country. And sometime you may see someone with two stripes who is a flight attendant, with or without a hat. In short, there are no hard and fast rules. I hope this helped and didn't just confuse the matter entirely.
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A few years back, I was flying for an Egyption airline as a B-707 IP Captain. On my first trip out of Cairo I was met by several crew members in the departure area; all sporting four stripes. At first I thought I was being greeted out of courtesy, since I was the first American in the company. As I was introduced to the group, I quickly discovered that this was my crew plus a DH crew. I later ascertained that in their system (culture), almost everyone seems to have four stripes including the flight engineer, and all call each other "captain". I soon played the same game and wore a Harley-Davidson T-shirt on all my flights, whenever I could get away with it, just to be different.
Note: Egyptian captains distinguish themselves by having a small "star" above the fourth stripe.
Note: Egyptian captains distinguish themselves by having a small "star" above the fourth stripe.
Join Date: Mar 2001
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during my time flying through many different countries in deepest darkest africa one gets to see some very strange sites...
in the congo, i have seen guys with 5 stripes.
in the old french and belgiun colonies you see the pilots with loops on their bars, this seems to be for customs officers in south africa and officers in the royal navy.
and from my time in algeria, i agree that everyone is called capatin.
also, it seems there are a lot of chefs around too in the french speaking countries....
in the congo, i have seen guys with 5 stripes.
in the old french and belgiun colonies you see the pilots with loops on their bars, this seems to be for customs officers in south africa and officers in the royal navy.
and from my time in algeria, i agree that everyone is called capatin.
also, it seems there are a lot of chefs around too in the french speaking countries....
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John Green, you're not correct here.
Most UK/Irish arlines are as follows:
CP - 4
FO - either 2 or 3
Nobody wears 1 stripe that I can think of.
Whether the FO wears 2 or 3 depends usually of whether they have a full ATPL (3 stripes) or not and/or on length of service in company.
Some companies call pre-ATPL FO's SO's, but thats a pay distinction. And some call pre-ATPL guys FO's and post-ATPL SFO's.
So it depends on the company who is called what. But the bottom line is the guy in LHS wears 4 and the guy in the RHS wears 2 or 3 and nobody wears 1.
Most UK/Irish arlines are as follows:
CP - 4
FO - either 2 or 3
Nobody wears 1 stripe that I can think of.
Whether the FO wears 2 or 3 depends usually of whether they have a full ATPL (3 stripes) or not and/or on length of service in company.
Some companies call pre-ATPL FO's SO's, but thats a pay distinction. And some call pre-ATPL guys FO's and post-ATPL SFO's.
So it depends on the company who is called what. But the bottom line is the guy in LHS wears 4 and the guy in the RHS wears 2 or 3 and nobody wears 1.
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Hi there MkVIII,
You answered my question so well last night, can I have a crack at yours ?
Would it have anything to do with Queen Victoria's being so impressed with the ship's Engineer's saving of the lives of the passengers during a particular shipping disaster after the "Officers and Gentlemen" had already taken to the lifeboats ?
She thereupon made Royal decree that the engineering profession in England and all Commonwealth countries may wear the royal colour (Purple) as part of their insignia.
PS - Engineers from non Commonwealth countries do not wear the purple.
Now, do I get my star ?
You answered my question so well last night, can I have a crack at yours ?
Would it have anything to do with Queen Victoria's being so impressed with the ship's Engineer's saving of the lives of the passengers during a particular shipping disaster after the "Officers and Gentlemen" had already taken to the lifeboats ?
She thereupon made Royal decree that the engineering profession in England and all Commonwealth countries may wear the royal colour (Purple) as part of their insignia.
PS - Engineers from non Commonwealth countries do not wear the purple.
Now, do I get my star ?
Join Date: Jun 2004
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These must still be the old days allwerp, there's still a lot of operators out there who still fly the 'classic' aircraft, you know, the type of airlines where the pilots can still interpret instruments, and the engineers know how to maintain aircraft.
Unfortunately there's also a lot of wannabe operators who can only afford the old stuff, and don't know how to maintain them.
Unfortunately there's also a lot of wannabe operators who can only afford the old stuff, and don't know how to maintain them.
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Thanks for the star MkVIII, dammit, you've been reading my posts, you know I'm going to Manchester next week.
Maybe the Manchester wasn't much of a Star, but it's offspring in the next generation became a truly outstanding Star. The same can be said for many pilots.
Maybe the Manchester wasn't much of a Star, but it's offspring in the next generation became a truly outstanding Star. The same can be said for many pilots.
Enigmatologist
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When I was D.O. of Caicos Caribbean Airways Ltd., I had some special epaulettes fashioned with the hangey down bullion and three stars and I sported about with a sword. But that just me.
