Operating under someone else's AOC
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Dublin Ireland
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Operating under someone else's AOC
Does anyone know of any airlines that started life under someone else's AOC? We all know EZY started under Air Foyles, but has anyone any other examples? Thanks in Advance, Miles.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: S.E England
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm sure there are hundreds of examples. My only experience was when at BWA, who of course 'hosted' Debonair before they got their own AOC.
There is so much work needed to get a new AOC these days it makes perfect sense to get the commercial sid eof the business up and running piggy back on someone elses AOC whilst you sort your own out.
There is so much work needed to get a new AOC these days it makes perfect sense to get the commercial sid eof the business up and running piggy back on someone elses AOC whilst you sort your own out.
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Dublin
Posts: 135
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Classic Airways operated also under BWA aoc.
This was a L1011 ad hoc charter company based in Stansted. They only lasted about 6 months.
There are many many more but my brain has gone dead
This was a L1011 ad hoc charter company based in Stansted. They only lasted about 6 months.
There are many many more but my brain has gone dead
Miles
There are 2 ways of starting such a project. Learn the business under someone elses AOC, but they are fully responsible for absolutely everything you do on every single little detail of the business. Starting your own AOC is achievable but you will need to buy in advice. This may sound expensive in the short term but could well pay dividends in the not so long term.
Good luck
Miles
There are 2 ways of starting such a project. Learn the business under someone elses AOC, but they are fully responsible for absolutely everything you do on every single little detail of the business. Starting your own AOC is achievable but you will need to buy in advice. This may sound expensive in the short term but could well pay dividends in the not so long term.
Good luck
Miles
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: york
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
sorry but i must correct you miles hi!! Easyjet was first started under GB airways AOC with two 737-200s from GBs operation, only for the first six months os so until air foyle stepped in 
The Aquatone Article
Join Date: May 2004
Location: London
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry but I must correct you, buzz boy! Yes, the B737-200s were on GB's AOC, but strictly speaking they weren't aircraft "from GB's operation". The aircraft concerned were operated by GB on its AOC on behalf of IAG - Independent Aviation Group - and it was IAG which had the contract with Easyjet.
So you actually have an example of aircraft being operated on behalf of a prospective airline (easyjet) by an existing AOC holder, but which were themselves already being operated by that airline on behalf of someone else!
The aircraft were acquired by IAG to operate IT flying on behalf of IAG's tour operator clients, and this they did in 1994 (and one unit still flew on IT in '95). But by autumn 1995 the aircraft were transfered by IAG to ACMI flying.
So you actually have an example of aircraft being operated on behalf of a prospective airline (easyjet) by an existing AOC holder, but which were themselves already being operated by that airline on behalf of someone else!
The aircraft were acquired by IAG to operate IT flying on behalf of IAG's tour operator clients, and this they did in 1994 (and one unit still flew on IT in '95). But by autumn 1995 the aircraft were transfered by IAG to ACMI flying.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: york
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
you are correct thunderball, but as i said they were operated under GBs AOC using GB crews (although some were IAG) , the aircraft were indeed ex Brittania a/c owned by IAG. The contract was continued by air foyle some six months later, the GB crews returning to GB.
Operating under someone else's AOC
The issue fits with the discussion but it might sound childish for that reason please forgive me in advance if this is the case.
I understand the AOC covers all the technical aspects of the operation. In the recent months I became aware of a bussiness concerne that purchased an existitng company for their AOC but the business concerned added a completely different type of aircraft in the operation (seaplanes).
I don't know if the original AOC holder has any aircraft on the AOC or if that makes any difference. ANy way can someone explain me if a) you can have an AOC without having any aircraft and b) how easy is to add the different aircraft type.
I hope it makes sence and I would get some ansewrs that would shed light.
Rwy in Sight
I understand the AOC covers all the technical aspects of the operation. In the recent months I became aware of a bussiness concerne that purchased an existitng company for their AOC but the business concerned added a completely different type of aircraft in the operation (seaplanes).
I don't know if the original AOC holder has any aircraft on the AOC or if that makes any difference. ANy way can someone explain me if a) you can have an AOC without having any aircraft and b) how easy is to add the different aircraft type.
I hope it makes sence and I would get some ansewrs that would shed light.
Rwy in Sight
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 562
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I know of a company who operates one aircraft type under another's AOC.
The 'lending' company pitches up now and again to jump seat on a few flights to see that SOP's are being adhered to.
I don't think it's a major issue really.
The 'lending' company pitches up now and again to jump seat on a few flights to see that SOP's are being adhered to.
I don't think it's a major issue really.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: S.E England
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Runway in Sight.
Adding an aircraft to the AOC shouldn't be too difficult but it will depend on what work needs to be undertaken. For example if you have been a short haul operator who suddenly wants to add a 747 to the AOC be prepared for a bit of work. You will have to change your ops manuals and satisfy the CAA that you have thought of everything.
You have set up a management system for the fleet with good experienced crews. Engineering exeperience, support and maintenance is in place. Operational procedures are adapted. For example long haul FTL's arr differant from short haul. Do you have experienced ops staff?
Do you have ETOPS procedures in place? Are the crew trained in Desert Survival (you could be flying to Africa now with your extended AOC / Aircraft). Do your manuals give advice on food/drink/social behaviour to your crews down route in your new far flung destinations? What about Security issues if your staying in unusual high risk places.
The list is endless and is all dependant on what you are adding and where. There is normally a period of consultation and many companys will contract in somebody with the relevant experience to audit their books and draw up a list of work that is required.
Once you've done that the Authority will charge you a nice fee for consulting on what you have prepared and what you need to still do.
Still hopefully it's worth it in the end!
Edited to say I just realised my 747 is ETOPS!!!
Adding an aircraft to the AOC shouldn't be too difficult but it will depend on what work needs to be undertaken. For example if you have been a short haul operator who suddenly wants to add a 747 to the AOC be prepared for a bit of work. You will have to change your ops manuals and satisfy the CAA that you have thought of everything.
You have set up a management system for the fleet with good experienced crews. Engineering exeperience, support and maintenance is in place. Operational procedures are adapted. For example long haul FTL's arr differant from short haul. Do you have experienced ops staff?
Do you have ETOPS procedures in place? Are the crew trained in Desert Survival (you could be flying to Africa now with your extended AOC / Aircraft). Do your manuals give advice on food/drink/social behaviour to your crews down route in your new far flung destinations? What about Security issues if your staying in unusual high risk places.
The list is endless and is all dependant on what you are adding and where. There is normally a period of consultation and many companys will contract in somebody with the relevant experience to audit their books and draw up a list of work that is required.
Once you've done that the Authority will charge you a nice fee for consulting on what you have prepared and what you need to still do.
Still hopefully it's worth it in the end!
Edited to say I just realised my 747 is ETOPS!!!
Last edited by You splitter; 21st May 2004 at 13:44.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Dublin Ireland
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks everyone, for all your insightful comments and observations. It is much appreciated, and for someone like me who is doing a project on behalf of someone much more worthy and important, it has been a lifesaver.
Here's a teaser for you. If an airline operates under someone elses AOC, does anyone know an average charge or cost? The reason I ask is, that as some of you may know, an Irish operator went under recently, and costs were apparently a contributory factor.
I was just hoping someone might have a ballpark figure that I can work with. HELP!
Here's a teaser for you. If an airline operates under someone elses AOC, does anyone know an average charge or cost? The reason I ask is, that as some of you may know, an Irish operator went under recently, and costs were apparently a contributory factor.
I was just hoping someone might have a ballpark figure that I can work with. HELP!
It is true that in the past the practice of operating on someone elses AOC has taken place but under CAA regulations now the practice has been virtually wiped out.
You will find it is not so much the operational side as the financial requirement that kills it. There was a way round it by using an ATOL licence but this was stopped.
Unless things have changed in the last eighteen months or so you will find it pretty much impossible to make this kind of arrangement.
My advice ( from first hand experience) is find another way of getting your airline started.
You will find it is not so much the operational side as the financial requirement that kills it. There was a way round it by using an ATOL licence but this was stopped.
Unless things have changed in the last eighteen months or so you will find it pretty much impossible to make this kind of arrangement.
My advice ( from first hand experience) is find another way of getting your airline started.
