Ditch Button
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Melbourne
Age: 36
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ditch Button
Sorry if this question has been asked before, but here goes anyway.
Exactly what is the purpose of the Ditch Button in airbus aircraft.
Thanks in Advance
Exactly what is the purpose of the Ditch Button in airbus aircraft.
Thanks in Advance
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pushing the Ditching Button will close the outflow valve, the emergency ram air inlet, the avionics ventilation inlet and extract valves, the pack flow control valves and the forward cargo isolation valve.
That's to prevent water entry in case of a emergency water landing.
Hope it helps.
DBate
That's to prevent water entry in case of a emergency water landing.
Hope it helps.
DBate
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Somewhere hot, hot, hot
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
But even with the switch pulled don't expect to keep your feet dry for long!
A lot of older aircraft (DC9's and MD80's, in my experience) leak like a sieve anyway in a hard downpour. I'd hate to land one in the sea.
A lot of older aircraft (DC9's and MD80's, in my experience) leak like a sieve anyway in a hard downpour. I'd hate to land one in the sea.
Iconoclast
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The home of Dudley Dooright-Where the lead dog is the only one that gets a change of scenery.
Posts: 2,132
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To: DBate
How about the water that enters the fuselage when the engines and wings are ripped off in the process of ditching?
That's to prevent water entry in case of a emergency water landing.
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: California USA
Posts: 719
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How about the water that enters the fuselage when the engines and wings are ripped off
Dave
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: LGW
Posts: 387
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This might soun like a silly question, but is it in your training to do emergency water landings in the sim? Not to sure if the sim can simulate a water landing. I once spoke to a pilot and he said he never did it in his training, it's all down to the individual to do his best if the unfortunate event ever occurred. Just interested to find out
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When I was doing 707 training at PanAmerican in the early seventies, was observing on one sim session where a flight engineer was undergoing upgrade training for the First officer position.
The approach was the backcourse localizer to rny 11 at KOAK (no visual on this particular sim), and PanAm allowed use of the FD105 for descent guideance, in a VS mode. It could also be programmed for correct lateral guideance, specifically required by PanAm.
The co-pilot descended a bit too soon and 'hit' the water about a mile short of the runway.
At this point, the sim instructor splashed a cup of water all over the guy and mentioned...'hey sport, you just got wet, what do you suggest now?'
The only reply from the right seat was....'oh s*it!'
Backside reaming then followed.
An absolutely true story.
The approach was the backcourse localizer to rny 11 at KOAK (no visual on this particular sim), and PanAm allowed use of the FD105 for descent guideance, in a VS mode. It could also be programmed for correct lateral guideance, specifically required by PanAm.
The co-pilot descended a bit too soon and 'hit' the water about a mile short of the runway.
At this point, the sim instructor splashed a cup of water all over the guy and mentioned...'hey sport, you just got wet, what do you suggest now?'
The only reply from the right seat was....'oh s*it!'
Backside reaming then followed.
An absolutely true story.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Somewhere hot, hot, hot
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ditching isn't practiced in the sim as a rule, as it can't be simulated effectively, and ditchings by large airliners are so rare that it's not seen as a valuable utilisation of time in the sim.
The guidelines are to land with the swell, keep the gear up and land as near as dammit to the stall speed and set it down as gently as you can. That and all the usual stuff like trying to set down near an oil rig or ship, or near a beach.
A DC9 Captain had a brain fart in the 70's and after throwing away a few approaches ended up runnning out of gas in the Caribbean. The water landing was textbook and the DC9 held together and floated for ten minutes or more, but the flight crew forgot to tell the cabin crew what was going on so the pax were caught out by the ditching and quite a few drowned.
The Ethiopian 767 that ditched in the Cormoros Islands might have been successful if they'd had all the flaps out and had a hijacker not been beating the skipper round the head with a fire extinguisher at the time, meaning he dipped a wing in first.
Other tragedies might have not been so serious if they'd taken a water landing. The El Al 747 crew that went down into the apartment blocks in AMS after losing two engines off the wing were considering ditching it into a lake outside the city. I dare say that at least one or two of them would be around to tell the tale if they had.
The guys flying the Air Canada 767 that ran out of gas in 1983 were also looking at ditching in Lake Winnipeg rather than taking their chances with terra firma, but they hit lucky with Gimli. Also a cargo 707 not so long back landed short of the runway at a a small African airport and came down into a lake. The 707 pulled up with a splash and the crew jumped out and waded to the shore without a scratch.
But a loaded 747 at night, in the mid atlantic in winter? Most professionals are realistic that it wouldn't be very pleasant and your chances wouldn't be good. If you've seen the movie 'Castaway' where the MD11 goes down after an explosive decompression then you'll see the (slightly overblown) reality. Lots of noise, wind, bells, cautions, and one almighty surge of water coming through the windscreens.
Not something I'd ever want to try!
Max
The guidelines are to land with the swell, keep the gear up and land as near as dammit to the stall speed and set it down as gently as you can. That and all the usual stuff like trying to set down near an oil rig or ship, or near a beach.
A DC9 Captain had a brain fart in the 70's and after throwing away a few approaches ended up runnning out of gas in the Caribbean. The water landing was textbook and the DC9 held together and floated for ten minutes or more, but the flight crew forgot to tell the cabin crew what was going on so the pax were caught out by the ditching and quite a few drowned.
The Ethiopian 767 that ditched in the Cormoros Islands might have been successful if they'd had all the flaps out and had a hijacker not been beating the skipper round the head with a fire extinguisher at the time, meaning he dipped a wing in first.
Other tragedies might have not been so serious if they'd taken a water landing. The El Al 747 crew that went down into the apartment blocks in AMS after losing two engines off the wing were considering ditching it into a lake outside the city. I dare say that at least one or two of them would be around to tell the tale if they had.
The guys flying the Air Canada 767 that ran out of gas in 1983 were also looking at ditching in Lake Winnipeg rather than taking their chances with terra firma, but they hit lucky with Gimli. Also a cargo 707 not so long back landed short of the runway at a a small African airport and came down into a lake. The 707 pulled up with a splash and the crew jumped out and waded to the shore without a scratch.
But a loaded 747 at night, in the mid atlantic in winter? Most professionals are realistic that it wouldn't be very pleasant and your chances wouldn't be good. If you've seen the movie 'Castaway' where the MD11 goes down after an explosive decompression then you'll see the (slightly overblown) reality. Lots of noise, wind, bells, cautions, and one almighty surge of water coming through the windscreens.
Not something I'd ever want to try!
Max
Iconoclast
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The home of Dudley Dooright-Where the lead dog is the only one that gets a change of scenery.
Posts: 2,132
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Words of wisdom.
On the Discovery program about the Air Transat A-330 that ran out of fuel they had an A-330 Captain from “some” airline discussing the possibility of ditching the A-330 and in his words it would have been a disaster.
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@ Lu Zuckerman
How about the water that enters the fuselage when the engines and wings are ripped off
Last edited by DBate; 1st May 2004 at 16:51.
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Mahlangeni
Posts: 204
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
::: Boeing 707 :::
I trust and hope that the guy who was sitting on the left seat at the time of the "707" ditching event by the upgrader F/I to F/O (cup of water splashed on him in the sim) learnt what :::INTERVENTION::: is all about. I guess the 70's were quite different to nowadays.
JEBO YES
JEBO YES
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oddly enough...simulated crew incapacitation.
The Flight Engineer was 'out to lunch' as well...
The F/O learned a very valuable lesson, in the sim, where it should be learned.
The Flight Engineer was 'out to lunch' as well...
The F/O learned a very valuable lesson, in the sim, where it should be learned.
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Mahlangeni
Posts: 204
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I trust and hope that the guy on the right seat who "ditched", learnt a valuable lesson, namely that having an instructor spill water on him (and the sim) can cause sim breakdowns...
Nah, just kidding. But seriously, I hope he didn't have a negative training experience from that mishap
BTW, do you recall the 707 ditching in Lake Victoria after the circling :::Black Hole:::
Safe Flying
That's to prevent water entry in case of a emergency water landing.
Are you sure that the descriptive word ditching button is an Airbus description or just operator slang for a feature designed for some other purpose.
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@ lomapaseo
The Ditching Pb is indeed a Pb that can be found in the Airbus cockpit and not just merely operator slang.
The button can be found on the CABIN PRESS Control Panel.
And once again the quote from my FCOM Section 1.21.20 Page 7:
'To prepare for ditching, the flight crew must press the DITCHING pushbutton on the CABIN PRESS control panel to close the outflow valve, the emergency ram air inlet, the avionics ventilation inlet and extract valves, the pack flow control valves, and the forward cargo outlet isolation valve (if installed).'
So long, DBate
The button can be found on the CABIN PRESS Control Panel.
And once again the quote from my FCOM Section 1.21.20 Page 7:
'To prepare for ditching, the flight crew must press the DITCHING pushbutton on the CABIN PRESS control panel to close the outflow valve, the emergency ram air inlet, the avionics ventilation inlet and extract valves, the pack flow control valves, and the forward cargo outlet isolation valve (if installed).'
So long, DBate