Close the door?
Join Date: Jan 2002
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Hi all,
Doesn't the pre start checklist mention 'doors' after the start or pushback clearance is obtained.
I think all doors should be closed prior to start or push, and the g/engineer needs to check that they are properly closed during the push!
It's an unusual day, to me, that we start one (or two) engines prior to closing the L1 (or L2) door!
And certainly never push with any door not closed, as well as giving the c/crew 'the word' if any door is opened after the push is started, without Captn approval.
Cheers
Doesn't the pre start checklist mention 'doors' after the start or pushback clearance is obtained.
I think all doors should be closed prior to start or push, and the g/engineer needs to check that they are properly closed during the push!
It's an unusual day, to me, that we start one (or two) engines prior to closing the L1 (or L2) door!
And certainly never push with any door not closed, as well as giving the c/crew 'the word' if any door is opened after the push is started, without Captn approval.
Cheers
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Notso:
"tech log pages still unpulled, signed loadsheet still onboard, cargo manifest documents on/off" - does your checklist not require the checking of ships papers in the pre-start checks? And if so (as it should), why would it not have been an open item if said papers were not completed? And if it were an open item, why would the push be commenced while the item was still open? And would any other items have been overlooked?
Persumably also the beacon was switched off to allow personnel to approach the aircraft...
Pedantic? I dont think so. The consequences of skipping checks are obvious to all.
"tech log pages still unpulled, signed loadsheet still onboard, cargo manifest documents on/off" - does your checklist not require the checking of ships papers in the pre-start checks? And if so (as it should), why would it not have been an open item if said papers were not completed? And if it were an open item, why would the push be commenced while the item was still open? And would any other items have been overlooked?
Persumably also the beacon was switched off to allow personnel to approach the aircraft...
Pedantic? I dont think so. The consequences of skipping checks are obvious to all.
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The original question was quite straightdforward. Paraphrasing slightly - is it normal aviation practice? It sounds like the answer is no but there are occasions when there may be a sound operational need to do so. Is it a H & S matter? Probably, and it has nothing to do with aeroplanes - you don't find doors on the second floor of a factory that open to a sheer drop because the rules say you don't. And anyway, it's common sense - for everone's safety. Why sould aircraft not be subject to the same common sense rules where the same risks apply? Not all rules can be applied to aircraft but where they fit why not? Aircraft are just workplaces after all. When I sit in front of a radar it gets treated much the same way as a computer monitor where applicable. Seems fair to me.
Join Date: Aug 2000
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Maximus. Well actually- No! Several times the GE frantically asked for the Tech log pages having forgotten to pull them- not our job to check they've gone- there's usually too many other things to do. I would imagine this scenario most probably involved the GE calling the door hinges were sticking out on a 737 during the push and asking for the door to be recycled.
Whatever, the fact remains the cabin crew were quite happy to manipulate the door- they could have called the pilot to stop had they wanted. They would have wanted had they known there was a self appointed Health & Safety monitor looking to 'shop' them! I really think it has all got very academic and run its course! If a busybody wants to go around shopping people, we'd all better get ready for even lengthier delays!
Whatever, the fact remains the cabin crew were quite happy to manipulate the door- they could have called the pilot to stop had they wanted. They would have wanted had they known there was a self appointed Health & Safety monitor looking to 'shop' them! I really think it has all got very academic and run its course! If a busybody wants to go around shopping people, we'd all better get ready for even lengthier delays!
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As perhaps one of the few engineers that do pushbacks nowadays I am horrified to read that doors are some times open during a push. Before I commence a push back I check that all doors and panels are closed and confirm this to the flight crew. In the event there is paperwork still on board, the crew usually throw it down to me from the DV window, either before OR after the push. A question I ask is why didn't the cabin crew contact the F/D that they wanted to open/close the door? What happened to C/C to F/D communications? Why didn't the F/D stop the push when the door warning light illuminated?
Join Date: Mar 2004
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I had a similar incident on a short haul, LHR - DUB flight a few weeks back. On the return leg i was in row 9, the emergency row.
After the push back was completed, and whilst the engines were still starting, I noticed that the pins which are slotted into the door to disable the slides in the event of an door opening were still in place.
This was the first flight of the day, but I would have thought during refueling and loading these would have been enabled for emergency evac.
I grabbed the attention of the no#1 and asked if "they always fly with the slides disabled". He gave me a wry grin, said of course not and within seconds there was another cabin attendant removing the pins.
I guess there can always be oversights, but if i hadnt said anything they might have done the flight with them in, although this is serious breach of practice, it doesnt nessisarilly need to be directed to the CAA.
After the push back was completed, and whilst the engines were still starting, I noticed that the pins which are slotted into the door to disable the slides in the event of an door opening were still in place.
This was the first flight of the day, but I would have thought during refueling and loading these would have been enabled for emergency evac.
I grabbed the attention of the no#1 and asked if "they always fly with the slides disabled". He gave me a wry grin, said of course not and within seconds there was another cabin attendant removing the pins.
I guess there can always be oversights, but if i hadnt said anything they might have done the flight with them in, although this is serious breach of practice, it doesnt nessisarilly need to be directed to the CAA.
Helicopter Pilots Get It Up Quicker
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OK from a different perspective....
Suppose Lawnmowerman was a fellow pilot, a positioning crew member from your company, heaven forbid someone from the CAA and not 'just' SLF - you might just be defending yourself in more frightening places than PPRUNE....
Or if your wife/husband was injured or killed as a result of falling from the open door...
Would you be as quick to jump on some one for raising concerns or would you be looking for blood because no one liked to say anything for fear of upsetting the crew?
All too often it takes an accident before 'normal' practices are changed.
PW
Suppose Lawnmowerman was a fellow pilot, a positioning crew member from your company, heaven forbid someone from the CAA and not 'just' SLF - you might just be defending yourself in more frightening places than PPRUNE....
Or if your wife/husband was injured or killed as a result of falling from the open door...
Would you be as quick to jump on some one for raising concerns or would you be looking for blood because no one liked to say anything for fear of upsetting the crew?
All too often it takes an accident before 'normal' practices are changed.
PW
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Ah well, at least you don't have far to fall from a 737...
I have stood at the open rear door of a (parked) A320 and that was scary enough, I'd be nowhere near it if it was moving!
I have stood at the open rear door of a (parked) A320 and that was scary enough, I'd be nowhere near it if it was moving!
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