Britten Norman Trislander
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Britten Norman Trislander
I have a friend who will be flying to the channel islands in the near future. She has heard that the aircraft is used is the Britten Norman Trislander, and shes a bit concerned that there is only only on pilot on the aircraft.
Firstly, is it true there is only one pilot??
Secondly, if it is, does anyone have any ideas as to how I might best tell her that this is no problem with this....?
Many Thanks,
101
Firstly, is it true there is only one pilot??
Secondly, if it is, does anyone have any ideas as to how I might best tell her that this is no problem with this....?
Many Thanks,
101
Last edited by 101; 18th May 2005 at 11:53.
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If she is flying with Rockhopper from Bournemouth, the aircraft will be a Trislander or Islander. If it is Aurigny from Southampton via Alderney then the aircraft will be Trislander. In both cases it will probably have a single pilot.
I have done both trips, enjoyable but slow.
I have done both trips, enjoyable but slow.
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I can remember the days when I used to fly the Trislander single crew and subsequently a Twin Otter on scheduled service, BHX-LGW when I could have a fare paying passenger in the right hand seat! I used to assure anybody with such worries that we all had to have very strict medical examinations extremely regularly and therefore the chances of pilot incapacitation was very remote. It seemed, coming from the Captain, to satisfy them.
P.P.
P.P.
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The issue of single crew has nothing to do with grandfather rights. Provided an aircraft is certified for single crew operation then you can operate it thus. A surprising number of surprisingly complex aircraft ARE certified single crew (some Citations and King Airs for example), but some insurance companies insist upon two crew. The Trislander/Islander fleet are certified for single crew.
For the Trislander and Islander, there is little that a second crew member could do other than reduce payload. In fact, some of the Aurigny Trislanders do not have a second set of controls. Single pilot Public Transport operations do have to comply with slightly higher weather minima because of the lack of a second crew member looking out of the window!
The main issue is that of an autopilot. The law requires that an aircraft operated for Public Transport under Instrument Flight Rules (as the Rockhopper and Aurigny ones are) must have a serviceable autopilot to be operated single crew. Aurigny and Rockhopper do not in most cases have an autopilot, and it is perhaps this exemption which can come under the auspices of 'Grandfather Rights'. I suppose the argument is that they have operated for so long without an incident attributable to the lack of an autopilot that the CAA is prepared to continue in this way. When Rockhopper started, they could not insist upon them having an autopilot as that is unfair, nor were they keen to insist that Aurigny had them fitted.
The only limitation is that they cannot operate into the major London Airports or Manchester without either a second pilot or an autopilot.
For the benefit of 101's friend, I can heartily recommend this way of going. The pilot has a more thorough medical check up every year than the average bus or truck driver or motorist with whom you share the roads, is regularly checked for competence, and has a vested interest in surviving the flight as well!! Everyone gets a window seat and from 3-5000 feet on a clear day the view is amazing. On Rockhopper you will be offered earplugs... a good idea, especially if you are the back of the Trislander.
For the Trislander and Islander, there is little that a second crew member could do other than reduce payload. In fact, some of the Aurigny Trislanders do not have a second set of controls. Single pilot Public Transport operations do have to comply with slightly higher weather minima because of the lack of a second crew member looking out of the window!
The main issue is that of an autopilot. The law requires that an aircraft operated for Public Transport under Instrument Flight Rules (as the Rockhopper and Aurigny ones are) must have a serviceable autopilot to be operated single crew. Aurigny and Rockhopper do not in most cases have an autopilot, and it is perhaps this exemption which can come under the auspices of 'Grandfather Rights'. I suppose the argument is that they have operated for so long without an incident attributable to the lack of an autopilot that the CAA is prepared to continue in this way. When Rockhopper started, they could not insist upon them having an autopilot as that is unfair, nor were they keen to insist that Aurigny had them fitted.
The only limitation is that they cannot operate into the major London Airports or Manchester without either a second pilot or an autopilot.
For the benefit of 101's friend, I can heartily recommend this way of going. The pilot has a more thorough medical check up every year than the average bus or truck driver or motorist with whom you share the roads, is regularly checked for competence, and has a vested interest in surviving the flight as well!! Everyone gets a window seat and from 3-5000 feet on a clear day the view is amazing. On Rockhopper you will be offered earplugs... a good idea, especially if you are the back of the Trislander.
There are two reasons to fly with two pilots, these are...
(1) Flying the aeroplane is complicated enough that there's a need for two people to do the work.
(2) The legs are sufficiently long that you need to share the fatigue.
Neither of these is the case with the Trislander. As it happens the regulations are also fairly content with 19 passenger seats or less to only have a single pilot and that's the case here.
Safety wise, the Islander and Trislander (the Trislander being a stretched Islander with a third engine added in the tail) have a very good safety record and are used worldwide for these sorts of inter-island hops, particularly because they are very rugged and happy on short runways.
Having said that, there is one very real risk in either aircraft - and that is to your hearing. Britten Norman (the company who build these beasties) perfected many years ago the fine art of producing lift as a secondary effect of noise. They are not at-all quiet, and earplugs (the little yellow sponge things) are pretty much essential for hops of any length.
G
(1) Flying the aeroplane is complicated enough that there's a need for two people to do the work.
(2) The legs are sufficiently long that you need to share the fatigue.
Neither of these is the case with the Trislander. As it happens the regulations are also fairly content with 19 passenger seats or less to only have a single pilot and that's the case here.
Safety wise, the Islander and Trislander (the Trislander being a stretched Islander with a third engine added in the tail) have a very good safety record and are used worldwide for these sorts of inter-island hops, particularly because they are very rugged and happy on short runways.
Having said that, there is one very real risk in either aircraft - and that is to your hearing. Britten Norman (the company who build these beasties) perfected many years ago the fine art of producing lift as a secondary effect of noise. They are not at-all quiet, and earplugs (the little yellow sponge things) are pretty much essential for hops of any length.
G
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Have just re-read the ANO's and discovered that the 'less than 10 seats' thing is apllicable to multi-engine turboprops and not pistons. Strange then why SkyTrek chose to operate their Tri's 2 crew.
Regards
VP (former Aurigny pilot, by the way!)
Regards
VP (former Aurigny pilot, by the way!)
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101
I have lived in the islands all my life and have flown Aurigny, (single pilot operation) Trislanders on many, many occasions and loved every minute of it. 1000 ft between islands provides great views and there seems to be more seating space than in a BAE146!! 15 minutes inter island and 45 minutes ACI/SOU but no in flight service!!!!
At least you can see your pilot and make sure he concentrates and he/she normally remembers which island he is going to. It is a great bus service, which I have to say, on occasions does go up and down a bit.
If you are lucky (as long as you are not allergic) you may find the odd man's best friend or cat sitting in front or behind you, you dont get that on most schedule airlines!!
The whole thing is very relaxed - hope your friend really enjoys the trip and again, with luck G-JOEY who has had many books written about him may be your aircraft. Also look out for G-FTSE, interesting feet!!
I have lived in the islands all my life and have flown Aurigny, (single pilot operation) Trislanders on many, many occasions and loved every minute of it. 1000 ft between islands provides great views and there seems to be more seating space than in a BAE146!! 15 minutes inter island and 45 minutes ACI/SOU but no in flight service!!!!
At least you can see your pilot and make sure he concentrates and he/she normally remembers which island he is going to. It is a great bus service, which I have to say, on occasions does go up and down a bit.
If you are lucky (as long as you are not allergic) you may find the odd man's best friend or cat sitting in front or behind you, you dont get that on most schedule airlines!!
The whole thing is very relaxed - hope your friend really enjoys the trip and again, with luck G-JOEY who has had many books written about him may be your aircraft. Also look out for G-FTSE, interesting feet!!
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My favourite a/c
Have flown on Trislander many a time and haven't got much to add except that flying in the Trislander is great fun and it has to be the best sounding piston-engined pax aircraft flying today even if it is v. loud! Best place to be sat is row 2 - great views of 'flightdeck'! Shame about new rules- sitting nxt to captain was the best.
GR now operate them in a 15-seat config I believe.
Tri
GR now operate them in a 15-seat config I believe.
Tri
....have a great memory as a 14yr old on holiday in the Channel Is. of my parents paying for me to do a GCI-JER-GCI daytrip so that I could experience the flight in the Trislander.
Yes, I sat next to the Captain.
Yes, I'm positive one of the flights was on G-JOEY (which wasn't very old then, I'm talking late 70's)
An instructor from the Club where I fly got a job with them last year, flying the Saab I think - he was chuffed to bits! (believe his partner is from the Islands)
Yes, I sat next to the Captain.
Yes, I'm positive one of the flights was on G-JOEY (which wasn't very old then, I'm talking late 70's)
An instructor from the Club where I fly got a job with them last year, flying the Saab I think - he was chuffed to bits! (believe his partner is from the Islands)
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I can recall a trilander return ride from Manchester to Walney (Barrow) a few years ago. I think it was 2 pilot - but cannot remember the airline. Does anyone know ??
The only single pilot trip I can recall (other than ppl) was on a King Air operated by Vickers from Cambridge via Northolt to Walney. That was really good 'cos I got to sit up front !!
The only single pilot trip I can recall (other than ppl) was on a King Air operated by Vickers from Cambridge via Northolt to Walney. That was really good 'cos I got to sit up front !!
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My memories were flying from Southampton to Kirkwall in a Defender - military version, no sound insulation, de-icing, heating or seats.
The Great Peter Phillips was flying - I will always remember the sound of ice hitting the fuselage from the props.....
The Great Peter Phillips was flying - I will always remember the sound of ice hitting the fuselage from the props.....
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I too have fond memories of the islander, esp on one flight when we were hit by lightning!!!
But im a little confused as to how this a/c has managed to keep flying since 9/11 as far as i can remember there's no cockpit door!
So could anyone shed light on this?
EB
But im a little confused as to how this a/c has managed to keep flying since 9/11 as far as i can remember there's no cockpit door!
So could anyone shed light on this?
EB
