'Direct To' with an INS?
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 524
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From: uk
'Direct To' with an INS?
Hi.
I've been having a look at an INS manual for just a bit of bed time reading. It's pretty old, but I find it quite interesting...these old navigation tools. It's good to know though that they are still in use for some old airliners such as the 727, A300 and Classic etc.
Whilst reading the waypoint entry section last night and knowing that you have to look up the waypoint on your flightplan and insert it's co-ordinates, I was thinking about getting a "Cleared direct to SAPCO" type instruction from ATC.
Let's say you're a foreign A300, coming from the Middle East and you're going to Heathrow for the first time ever. ATC come over the headphones and say "Cleared direct to LOGAN".
Right...LOGAN is not on your flightplan, you grab your chart and spend 10 minutes looking for it on the chart to see if you can use the VOR to some how find it! This is all post "Roger, cleared direct LOGAN?!" response. What you need is the co-ordinates right? So you can merily plug them into your INS as a new waypoint....What do you do exactly? Where do you find this information quickly if it's an unexpected "Direct to...." waypoint.
Also, just a little related question. Would you setup SIDs/STARs in your INS? Or would you just insert the last position of the SID (or entry waypoint of the STAR in that case) and fly the needles for the procedure?
Many thanks in advance for any answers/comments.
Cheers
OBK
I've been having a look at an INS manual for just a bit of bed time reading. It's pretty old, but I find it quite interesting...these old navigation tools. It's good to know though that they are still in use for some old airliners such as the 727, A300 and Classic etc.
Whilst reading the waypoint entry section last night and knowing that you have to look up the waypoint on your flightplan and insert it's co-ordinates, I was thinking about getting a "Cleared direct to SAPCO" type instruction from ATC.
Let's say you're a foreign A300, coming from the Middle East and you're going to Heathrow for the first time ever. ATC come over the headphones and say "Cleared direct to LOGAN".
Right...LOGAN is not on your flightplan, you grab your chart and spend 10 minutes looking for it on the chart to see if you can use the VOR to some how find it! This is all post "Roger, cleared direct LOGAN?!" response. What you need is the co-ordinates right? So you can merily plug them into your INS as a new waypoint....What do you do exactly? Where do you find this information quickly if it's an unexpected "Direct to...." waypoint.
Also, just a little related question. Would you setup SIDs/STARs in your INS? Or would you just insert the last position of the SID (or entry waypoint of the STAR in that case) and fly the needles for the procedure?
Many thanks in advance for any answers/comments.
Cheers
OBK
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 3
From: Arizona USA
Likewise with many other charts as well, the co-ordinates are there, just insert same as a waypoint, dial up direct to...works like a charm.
Remember one of the very early SQ 707 flights to HNL, the aircraft was fifty miles off track, with one INS fitted.
Yet with a navigator, using Bendix Doppler and astro nav...right on course.
Of course, it helps to read the INS book before using same...which a few guys thought was not necessary...
Remember one of the very early SQ 707 flights to HNL, the aircraft was fifty miles off track, with one INS fitted.
Yet with a navigator, using Bendix Doppler and astro nav...right on course.
Of course, it helps to read the INS book before using same...which a few guys thought was not necessary...
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 809
Likes: 0
From: A few degrees South
Allright, I am a pilot still using INS. By coincidence A300 AND operating from the Mid-East. We fly charter to and from Europe and so having a lot like this. Lot`s of CDG, Heatrow , Milan etc. so we have this `direct Logan`, quit a lot. First of all let me say that we prepare our flight. After 4 hrs ruise it is easy to set up your expected approach with all the different wayponts, so you are familiar. So you more or less know what to expect. This is the same in FMS a/c! And inserting a waypoint, reading coordinates from a Jepp aerea or approach chart takes only 20 sec. Depents how you are prepared. If you are cleared to an unexpected waypoint, you still have VORS, NDB, and initial reference headings helping you during the short time it takes to setup this "new" waypoint...works perfect for me!
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: Aus
G'day, normally if ATC need you to track direct to a Waypoint, and it has no aid, then request radar vectors. Type in Lat/Long then track direct to the aformentioned position.
Hassles arise when flying over some routes that need a position report every 2 minutes or less (some Russian routes). The "DelcoRemy Carousel IV" has room for only 9 waypoints.
Some sectors have over 150 waypoints!
The F/E can put the long/lats into INS3, this can be then cross checked by the Pilot not flying against the ERC (has Lon/Lats). He chks TRK/DIST.
SIDS/STARS can be loaded, INS acuracy then becomes a bit a an issue, especially if not enough DME's etc. for updates. 3+3T.
CheersandBeers
Hassles arise when flying over some routes that need a position report every 2 minutes or less (some Russian routes). The "DelcoRemy Carousel IV" has room for only 9 waypoints.
Some sectors have over 150 waypoints!
The F/E can put the long/lats into INS3, this can be then cross checked by the Pilot not flying against the ERC (has Lon/Lats). He chks TRK/DIST.
SIDS/STARS can be loaded, INS acuracy then becomes a bit a an issue, especially if not enough DME's etc. for updates. 3+3T.
CheersandBeers
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 903
Likes: 0
From: Home
spadger
What is the procedure you use with Delco CIV for RNAV departures and arrivals viz a viz DXB?
ie on departure concerning overfly points, what each of the 3 CDUs are set to
For arrival achieving RNP 5 requirements using Nav mode accuracy index etc
What is the procedure you use with Delco CIV for RNAV departures and arrivals viz a viz DXB?
ie on departure concerning overfly points, what each of the 3 CDUs are set to
For arrival achieving RNP 5 requirements using Nav mode accuracy index etc
