Flying to Bagdad???

[vunzke]

Does anyone of you out there have any experience or recommandations (other than "dont go") with respect to civil flights into Bagdad in particular or Irak in general?

Although offered a possibility and good money to go there our company decided (for now) not to go there due to lack of information on safety etc.

Appreciate any helpfull info

Vunzke

[opsjockey]

iraq

Our company regularly operate into Iraq and Afghanistan. Never had any problems except for the lack of movement signals but an HF call normally gets the info we require. Have had trouble with the 5min atc window tho.. If you're scheduled/slotted to arrive at 1500 and you call up with an estimate of 1510 they will turn you away. Im only a humble Operations controller so i've never actually been there, but planning wise we've never had any probs. Squawk/ssr coded offered in advance so as long as you remember to take them with you all should be ok! Flight planning no prob either, one way in and one way out (depending who you're flying for). Check out the RAMCC website for info/briefs -
www.centaf.af.mil/ramcc/

OJ

[propulike]

The money is good for a reason! All military flights going to Bagdad require defensive aids as standard, and they ARE used. I daresay that the chappie on the ground may not differentiate between a military charter and a military aircraft.

If the cash is too attractive the RAMCC website has all the required info., to be followed up with booking and briefings via your Ops.

I go, but I don't volunteer......

[Speevy]

Heys guys, don't ask me questions I will not be able to answer, here I report what I have been told from a good friend of mine (trustworthy!!):
My company has been flying to Iraq for a while now, I have to find another job asap!!
Some of our airplames spotted some rockets shot at them a couple of time!! I need to get out, sooner or later somebody will get hurt.

He didn't tell me if he was flying to Bagdad but if I am not mistaken Bassora it's quite safe compared to the sunni triangle, so, since there aren't many other airports around there (at least famous ones!!), you do the math!!!!

Sorry if I am reporting a second hand info with not a lot of details, I just don't think my friend would be happy to see that I share more detailed infos on the web

Good flying to everybody

[vunzke]

Thanks OpsJ,

I was familiar with the site you refer to and am not really concerned with the technical feasability couse im sure thats OK. What I am looking for is safety issues, what if you go technical in Bagdad or worse what if you have to divert or make an emergency landing for whatever reason. What about SAR, chances of getting shot at and insurance issues.

Nevertheless OpsJ thanks for taking the time to respond

cheers

Same to you propulike and speevy,
thanks for the info....

keep the blue side up....

[Gerund]

I fly into Baghdad almost every day.

Firstly, the website quoted won't get you very far, the new one is

http://ramcc.dtic.mil/

In my opinion the only real risk is getting hit by a SAM 7 (Strela 2). These have a slant range of 4.2 km, a ceiling of approximately 2,300m, and a minimum effective altitude of 30m.

And about 1.2 kg of HE.

There are believed to be 1,000s still in Iraq and the Coalition Forces have recently started offering $500 for each one turned in. Either they are short of money, or there are an awful lot of them unaccounted for. The latter is believed to be the case.

The SAM 7 was partly designed to drive aircraft above its operating range into the range of radar controlled missiles which are much more effective. There are believed to be none of these in Iraq for obvious reasons. The SAM 7 is a tail chase passive infra red missile and only has a hit rate of 17-25% even when fired in optimum conditions.

So, what is the chance of a hit when you are going into Baghdad?

Over 20 or so missiles have been fired at aircraft going into, or out of Baghdad, and none have hit. Partly because they are being fired at their maximum, or further, range (due to the 'safe zone' cleared around the airfield), and partly because most aircraft (but not all) spiral down into Baghdad from directly overhead, and spiral up again. The spiral is from, and to, a minimum altitude of 10,000 ft, and therefore out of range of a SAM 7 being fired from beyond the 'safe' area.

I, personally, believe that the risk is minimal. One has to assess risk on the probability of an unwanted occurrence. Given the number of aircraft movements at ORBI, and the fact that no aircraft has yet been hit, you have to make your own calculations and decide whether driving is that much safer.

(The American helicopter shot down the other day was believed hit by a SAM 7, but was flying at 200 ft over Faluja, a notorious hotspot west of Baghdad).

All this may, of course, be famous last words!!

[vunzke]

Thanks Gerund for the clear explanation. Beiing brought up in an airline environment where everything is done to make sure every risk is eliminated as much as possible and where airports get closed if even an unaccompanied suitcase is found to eliminate the possibility of it causing any damage the SAM story does not give me a great feeling. On the other hand one has to get his shot of adrenaline from somewhere and flyiing pushbutton aircraft into mediterranean airports doesnt do that for sure.

Can you maybe tell me anything about what is arranged in case of any problem for which you would have to divert or even worse make a forced landing somewhere outside the Bagdad safe zone?

What about insurance coverage for yourself? My insurance company told me they will not pay a dime to get me out or for any damage to my body while in the warzone.

Sorry about all the questions but its just to make a feasable riskanalysis for me and my collegues to be able to make "sensible" decisions on whether to accept or not

Thanks again

[Gerund]

vunzke

Diversion airfields are a slight problem in Iraq, mainly due to obtaining half reasonable weather information, but we use Erbil and Kirkuk in the North, and Basra in the South, all about one hour's flying time from Baghdad at about 260 kts.

As for life insurance, I have none. Unfortunately, I am one of those mortals who has no one who cares.

However, I was speaking to a businessman at Baghdad International two days ago who told me he had difficulty in arranging life insurance, but arranged it at $10,000 for a week for $400,000 of cover. Apparently, the 'in the field' private security personnel have cover for $5,000 a day. However, I am not sure what the level of cover is.

I hope this gives some kind of guidance.

[vunzke]

Thanks again Gerund... and for sure the premium amount sais a lot to me as to the level of security in Irak...

and for what its worth... I care even for mortals like U....