Etops
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Etops
Hi all,
i work in ops (very junior) for a new european airline. Its possible the over the winter months we will be looking at some ETOPS flying (eec and non eec registered leased aircraft/crews) As a company we have never had to do any ETOPS planning/ dispatching before so we are all more or less in the same boat as far as experience is concerned (i think theres one chap who has done it before). I have been doing a bit of net searching about rules, alternates, weather, and of course the time distance points. I firmly believe that forwarned is forarmed and id like to get as much understanding before our task commences..... any thoughts or websites, even suggestions on books/reading material would be gratefully accepted.
Thanks.
OJ
i work in ops (very junior) for a new european airline. Its possible the over the winter months we will be looking at some ETOPS flying (eec and non eec registered leased aircraft/crews) As a company we have never had to do any ETOPS planning/ dispatching before so we are all more or less in the same boat as far as experience is concerned (i think theres one chap who has done it before). I have been doing a bit of net searching about rules, alternates, weather, and of course the time distance points. I firmly believe that forwarned is forarmed and id like to get as much understanding before our task commences..... any thoughts or websites, even suggestions on books/reading material would be gratefully accepted.
Thanks.
OJ
Join Date: Sep 2003
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ETOPS info
Boeing produce an excellent quaterly magazine called Aero. you can view it on line and a fair while ago there was an article all about ETOPS. Also look up one of the laterissues, about polar routes. Although not directly related, it does have some useful and related info.
Here is the link
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_07/
It covers a lot of the general info and how the system is worked out. I dont know what machines you have but that wouldnt make much difference, the principles will be the same.
I do know how ever that some of the components have to be ETOPS certified, and if an airplane is ETOPS then only these componets can be fitted.
I was invovled with the Speedbird Outfit on maintenace of these a few years ago but the rules have changed a little I beleive.
Remember, ETOPS = Engines Turn Or Passengers Swim
Here is the link
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_07/
It covers a lot of the general info and how the system is worked out. I dont know what machines you have but that wouldnt make much difference, the principles will be the same.
I do know how ever that some of the components have to be ETOPS certified, and if an airplane is ETOPS then only these componets can be fitted.
I was invovled with the Speedbird Outfit on maintenace of these a few years ago but the rules have changed a little I beleive.
Remember, ETOPS = Engines Turn Or Passengers Swim
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ETOPS
I dont want to fill up loads of space and waste time but also, Ops Jockey, Check CAP418 (my bible - well kinda, but not so much any more) I think in there is states something about requirement of a reliabiilty program for ETOPS. I have a copy at home and will check tonight and post details tuesday.
I think I have something else as well, cant remember, also, you need an oil monitoring program incl APU and an ETM programm
Hay Ewe
I think I have something else as well, cant remember, also, you need an oil monitoring program incl APU and an ETM programm
Hay Ewe
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maybe this will help a little bit
Hello opsjockey,
I just started flying ETOPS. Besides extensive material that I received from the company I also used the internet to prepare for this new challenge. ETOPS is at its most restrictive during the planning phase of the flight.
I think we use the JAR limits. First off the potential ETOPS airports have to meet adequacy requirements (pretty important that you have a good grasp of Adequacy versus Suitable when it comes to airports) for the aircraft concerned. As far as weather goes we look at potential ETOPS airports for suitability by adding 400 feet and 1500 meters to the most restrictive limits excluding CAT II/III. If the airport has two runways you can reduce these additions to 200 feet and 800 meters. There are exceptions like State minima that are used for Alternate airports in the USA and Canada (basically 600 feet / 3200 meters for precision approaches and 800 feet / 3200 meters for non-precision approaches). Also wind is taken into consideration and has to be within operating limits (including gusts). These weather conditions have to be met for the entire time that the airport can potentially be used for diversion. The time window opens at the earliest possible arrival time (basically the fastest way you can get there from the ETOPS entry point), and closes at the latest possible arrival time (this is basically a return from the farthest point from the airport flying at 10,000 feet).
The circle size expressed in minutes (120, 180, etc) is translated into a distance by the application that your company has made as to the one-engine cruise speed. This is part of your ETOPS approval from your regulatory agency. My company has elected to use 310 Knot Indicated Airspeed (This translates to a 420 knots groundspeed in no wind conditions). So our 120 minute circle is 840 nautical miles, our 180 minute circle is 1260 nautical miles. This is for the Boeing 767-300ER.
For fuel, three scenarios are compared to each other and you have to meet the fuel requirements for the most restrictive one. The three scenarios for diversion are 1) Engine-failure. 2) Decompression. 3) Decompression and simultaneous engine failure. Usually scenario 2 is the most fuel intensive.
Lastly the MEL plays a much larger role in the flight planning. Items that would not have much of an effect on a normal flight might make ETOPS impossible. As an example a flight can be made non-ETOPS with an unserviceable APU, while ETOPS will not be possible with that same fault. The MEL applies in our case until the application of take-off power.
There are a number of things that have to be met by your organization. Maintenance procedures are different for ETOPS aircraft. Special monitoring programs have to be in place. And many things outside of my expertise are involved.
I use the following internet site to take a look at things before I undertake an ETOPS flights. Lets you play around with different things, and gives a brief explanation of some of the subjects involved. http://gc.kls2.com/faq.html#$locations .
I don’t claim to be an ETOPS expert, and some of the things that I mentioned are more complicated than I state. I hope you can understand the spirit in which this information is given.
Regards, O.
I just started flying ETOPS. Besides extensive material that I received from the company I also used the internet to prepare for this new challenge. ETOPS is at its most restrictive during the planning phase of the flight.
I think we use the JAR limits. First off the potential ETOPS airports have to meet adequacy requirements (pretty important that you have a good grasp of Adequacy versus Suitable when it comes to airports) for the aircraft concerned. As far as weather goes we look at potential ETOPS airports for suitability by adding 400 feet and 1500 meters to the most restrictive limits excluding CAT II/III. If the airport has two runways you can reduce these additions to 200 feet and 800 meters. There are exceptions like State minima that are used for Alternate airports in the USA and Canada (basically 600 feet / 3200 meters for precision approaches and 800 feet / 3200 meters for non-precision approaches). Also wind is taken into consideration and has to be within operating limits (including gusts). These weather conditions have to be met for the entire time that the airport can potentially be used for diversion. The time window opens at the earliest possible arrival time (basically the fastest way you can get there from the ETOPS entry point), and closes at the latest possible arrival time (this is basically a return from the farthest point from the airport flying at 10,000 feet).
The circle size expressed in minutes (120, 180, etc) is translated into a distance by the application that your company has made as to the one-engine cruise speed. This is part of your ETOPS approval from your regulatory agency. My company has elected to use 310 Knot Indicated Airspeed (This translates to a 420 knots groundspeed in no wind conditions). So our 120 minute circle is 840 nautical miles, our 180 minute circle is 1260 nautical miles. This is for the Boeing 767-300ER.
For fuel, three scenarios are compared to each other and you have to meet the fuel requirements for the most restrictive one. The three scenarios for diversion are 1) Engine-failure. 2) Decompression. 3) Decompression and simultaneous engine failure. Usually scenario 2 is the most fuel intensive.
Lastly the MEL plays a much larger role in the flight planning. Items that would not have much of an effect on a normal flight might make ETOPS impossible. As an example a flight can be made non-ETOPS with an unserviceable APU, while ETOPS will not be possible with that same fault. The MEL applies in our case until the application of take-off power.
There are a number of things that have to be met by your organization. Maintenance procedures are different for ETOPS aircraft. Special monitoring programs have to be in place. And many things outside of my expertise are involved.
I use the following internet site to take a look at things before I undertake an ETOPS flights. Lets you play around with different things, and gives a brief explanation of some of the subjects involved. http://gc.kls2.com/faq.html#$locations .
I don’t claim to be an ETOPS expert, and some of the things that I mentioned are more complicated than I state. I hope you can understand the spirit in which this information is given.
Regards, O.
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ETOPS
Wow, this is great info!
Have been reading and printing all morning! thanks for the links also. equipment will be B763, B762 and poss B752(?). In the office ive found that everyone assumes ETOPS to be over water (europe to the usa for example) but it also applies over land (i think, after all im new to this kinda stuff) like europe-asia etc.. been reading about driftdown too. All very interesting stuff, may have to visit a caa library sometime soon!! thank you all very much, im learning loads.... safety is no accident!!
Have been reading and printing all morning! thanks for the links also. equipment will be B763, B762 and poss B752(?). In the office ive found that everyone assumes ETOPS to be over water (europe to the usa for example) but it also applies over land (i think, after all im new to this kinda stuff) like europe-asia etc.. been reading about driftdown too. All very interesting stuff, may have to visit a caa library sometime soon!! thank you all very much, im learning loads.... safety is no accident!!
