Height and/or Weight Issues
 

I have another question for you all. I'm 5'8 and play alot of sport, my favorite being rugby. I play inside centre and for those of you in the know you have to be fit and strong as well as fast and agile. I played first team rugby for three years at University as well as a good standard of club rugby.

What am i getting at, i hear you say, well although i do play alot of sport and consider myself fit i do however weigh 15 stone. Now the problem is that i am heaverly bilt, i'm not fat, but i do have broad shoulders and legs like tree trunks. I run four times a week as well as swimming and of course playing rugby. I'm not a 'body-builder' or anything like that, although i do go in the gym and do weight work, but for fitness reasons rather than cosmetic ones.

I got my navy application through with the medical requirments and it said for my height i needed to be 11stone 10lbs and even with the 15% they allow that only brings it to 12stone 7lbs.

My question is how strict are they. I doubt very much whether i will make 12stone 7lbs. The lowest i can probably get to is 13stone, and thats pusing it. But if i'm really fit and have say a body fat percentage of about 10% will they still fail me on my medical.

I would be very grateful if someone could advise me on this as it is critical that i find this information out as i could stop my naval aviation career even before it has chance to begin.

Please help

Welsh Flyer

Dont worry it is tempered with common sense! Had a great season as prop for the Fleet air arm, only next aircrew medical I was declared 35% overweight. The doc said I had to lose weight, I replied -up your bum chumpy, Ive got selection for the RN team in 2 months time! Long and the short of it was had to do a body fat analysis and a VO2 uptake test which showed I was fitter and leaner than average. Now got a great 'get out of jail free chit' in my medical docs for future years!!!

Thanks Klunk, your bit of advice was good to hear. The only problem though is that you're already in the navy and have a proven record. What about someone who hasn't actually passed AIB yet, like me?? Do you think the medical officer will do the same thing for me as he did for you??

Welsh Flyer

I will email you

The ars@h@le docs in the RAF do stick to these rules with weight and average size however I think that the survey was done in the early 60s in the US so how relavent the weights are ....?

To WF

Cant say for the Navy, but the RAF are **** hot on this Ht/WT thing.

Sounds as if there's been a bit of 'Club Class' pie-eating and bitter-swilling, too. Five Foot Eight and fifteen stone???

You may not be a L@rd-@rse, but by 'eck, you're storing up problems for your ticker when you get a bit older, chum!

PS: A bit less time in the gym and a bit more in the library, and you wouldn't be so 'heaverly bilt'. How's that for @n@l?

[This message has been edited by Jackonicko (edited 17 June 2000).]

Wasn't Rory Underwood told that he was overweight at some point - when he was playing for England. The docs also told him to lose weight....(not sure what the response was !) and he is still flying now.

I think civilian outfits would take a second look too. Many use the BMI to measure suitability.L**d A*** would seam appropriate.


------------------
Happiness is a 378 Ton airliner!

Thanks for the positive and not at all p**s taking replies guy's. I would like to add that Scott Gibbs (Welsh & Lions center) was 15 stone 7lbs when he was at his best, and was only 5ft 8". You wouldn't call him fat thats for sure. Anyway, i am aware that i have to lose weight, but the question still remains. How strict are they, and do they purly go on height - weight??????

welsh flyer.

There must be some more intelligent way for 'them' to assess your fitness for flying training - back in the 70s we had quite a few rugger-buggers flying on my UAS and they weren't small!! It didn't seem to stop them going on to be RAF pilots though. The current racing-snake mentality seems self-defeating if it prevents an otherwise fit person joining the mob. But don't forget that you won't necessarily get time off to go and grind people's faces in the mud every Wednesday these days - and your instructors will be very peeved if you are off work with sport-induced injuries!!
Perhaps the real problem is just that you come from the land of the language-without-vowels?? Only joking - we have a fairly large Welshman on our squadron!!

[This message has been edited by BEagle (edited 21 June 2000).]

Faced the same problem in the late '80s - playing county rugby, fit as a fiddle, blah blah. My challenge wasn't so severe as I'm a little over 5'10''. Pilot acceptance was conditional on the weight loss. Made myself ill (Cambridge diet, bin bag running etcetc) although I was so run down and caught every bug going, I was declared fit by the RAF!
Are they being 'weightist' in insisting you lose weight, irrespective of fitness level? Perhaps you could write to the current Chairman of the Services' Rugby union that you are hoping to join? Will you fit in the cockpit? Ultimately, you may have to challenge the jurrasic regulations through political/legal means, but firstly, just ask for common sense to be appplied.
Finally, don't pay any attention to the pie-eaters amongst us who have never attained your level of fitness, and now that they are serving, never will.....

Thanks very much BEagel and EESDL, your comments were very much appreciated. I am managing to lose more weight and have infact broken into the fourteen stone bracket, just have to keep going.

I know how you must have felt EESDL, as the amount of training i am doing is takeing its tole on my body, but i guess you have to do what is needed to get in!

Thanks again for the support

Welsh Flyer

Don't worry too much about it. I had the same problem way back in the 80's when I joined. All you need do is convince them that the weight 'aint fat. It works. However, I will say that in those days IOT PT took care of any weight problem that you may have had!!

The point that is being missed here is that absolute weight is very important (both min and max). This is because the ejection seats that we use have qiute stringent limits. I can't remember the exact limits off the top of my head (don't tell Staneval) but 15 stone is too heavy - certainly for the Tornado. This doesn't mean that you couldn't fly in it at all (people regularly do) but it isn't a zero zero seat. The RAF therefore doesn't like people starting off with this limitation. However, like eye sight, people who have 'deteriorated' just continue flying with the new limitations. This may not be a problem in the multi/rotary world but again the RAF doesn't like people being limited in their posting right from the start.

This might seem quite negative but I think the one huge positive point is that the RAF is desperate for aircrew and will overlook minor discrepancies for the right candidate.

OK Welshy - I'm a girly so I had the same problem with height/weight but on the other end of the scale (ie: I was too light). I solved it by drinkinng a gallon of water five minutes before my medical then putting on the weight pronto.

The official statistics for the RAF are:
Weight - between 56.8 and 94.0 kg.

The cool thing is, your height to weight ratio isn't important, you just have to be inside those boundaries above, and also be between 865 and 1010 mm height whilst sitting down. I have the official stats here on my lovely green medical form.

Need any other tips, email me, as I've literally JUST passed selction and so have all the up-to-date stuff to hand.
Regadrs

YakYak

I am Archiving this thread in the Wannabes Archive for future reference.

I am placing most Military Wannabe threads there so that over time you guys can just point young hopefuls to the Wannabes Archive where they will find answers to all the stock questions.

This will free up space for non-wannabe threads.

Cheers,

WWW

height problems
 

Has anyone here suffered problems when training or applying for a job due to height? I am 6'5", is this going to set me back?

Shortarse!

I'll get me coat....

If applying for the RAF, 6'5" may give you problems with ejection seat limits. There are sitting height , buttock-knee and weight limits. I am 6'3" and 87 kg and am close to some limits, but I have seen some v tall truckies though!

If applying, the Av Med Centre at RAF Henlow or your RAF Careers centre shiould be able to help.

Good Luck.

I am the same height as you, but am comfortable in a Dash 8. Also sat in B737 without any problems. However, training aircraft may present a problem. Cessna 152s you can forget, (but try for yourself!), but you shouldn't have any problems in a Warrior / Cadet / Cessna 172. Twins are ok too (Seneca, Seminole etc) Best of luck!

I am 6'6'' and can confirm: forget about the C152. Everthing else worked pretty well for me, i.e. C172, Archer, MO20J and Seneca.Just got hired with Crossair looking either for the SAAB 2000, Avro 85/100 or the new ERJ145. Have two friends flying on the 2000 and the Avro. Both of them are 6'5'' and feel very comfortable. To my knowledge there are no height restrictions by Crossair so far. So keep your head out of the clouds !!
Good luck !

rtt

How do you mean forget about a 152 i'm 6'6'' and got 500hr instructing on these things.
In one of the A/C i flew freight,depending on the cross wind i had to change seat to get full aileron,my knee would otherwise be in the way.
Now i fly the jet these problems are over.
good luck with it and dont worry

Neil

Height for BA
 

Just reading on the BA jobs site...Height restriction for trainee pilots...below 6'3"...Ahhhh, I think I'm just on the limit there, but I might grow some more http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif
Is this a definite figure, or will they consider you if you are an inch too big or so...
Anyone with experience of this, please tell me...

Regards

Mike

Has no one got any info on this one http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif

Mike

All I know, is that the info on BA's job website says that height is accurately determined at assessment!!!

Reading through the DEP info, it says applicants taller than 1m91 may apply, and basically BA will see if you can fit in one of their aircraft. However, it says no such thing for the CEP scheme.

Mike

There was a thread on this subject a few months ago... Suggest a search...as it did generate quite a few replies.

I was measured at RAF Cranwell at 1.98m which is dead on 6ft 5ins - hence why the RAF said no even though I passed everything else. Just a touch annoying!! I rang BA but they wouldn't have any of it. It's an internal BA thing that no other airline has - believe me, i've rung them all and the schools and the CAA to check and they all said it's not a problem. Like I said it's just BA.

Give it a shot but it sounds like you'll have to be looking elsewhere for sponsorship.

Good luck!

Height to Weight
 

I originally posted this in "Medical" but got no replies so I thought I'd try here.
I know that BA say that your height has to be in proportion to your weight for CEP sponsorship but does anybody have any figures on this? Would a few kilos over an ideal weight be grounds for an outright rejection or would they defer your application until you reached ideal weight. Or conversely if you are otherwise fit and healthy are they not too concerned? Any thoughts greatly appreciated.

All the employers that I know will apply a bit of discretion over the height/weight thing. Obviously, what they want to avoid is a very expensive pilot being sidelined by a heart attack brought on by obesity, or something similar. Their medics are generally fairly sensible when it comes to judging the difference between those who are heavy because they train hard, and those who are overweight because they drink and eat hard.
However, your weight is within your control. If you feel that you are a bit more porky than you should be, do something about it. Don't wait until the medical! It's not so easy for those underweight (but they are much more rare!), but a chat with your doctor or a dietician might be beneficial.

[ 05 September 2001: Message edited by: Scroggs ]

Hi Scroggs,

I too am concerned about my height to weight factor.

At 22 I'm 5ft 11 and weight just over 10st, hence a tad light for my height.

When I obtained my Class I, the fine lass said that this was not an issue, but are BA likely to look at this in the same light.

Your thought would be appreciated.

Regards

Fra

Fra,

You're welcome to some of mine FOC.

PS

Hi there,
This is quite an interesting topic I feel. I am 6ft1, and weigh only 10 st. I am one of those people who can eat a horse and never put any weight on. What I am wondering however, is if BA are all for "Equal oppertunities" then surely making someone unsuccessful in their application because of their height/weight not being in proportion is not very equal! Also the CAA do not ask for a height restriction, but BA do, again is this not an instance of not being equal. I feel that BA are sometimes a little too choosy, but hey thats me! Anyone else feel the same? I would be gutted if they turned me down at the medical for being a little too light, especially if I had worked so hard to get there in the first place.

Anyone else got any feelings on this issue?

Rossco

Work out your body mass index. Work out your height in metres eg. I would be 1.67 (5'6"). Square it. Then divide it into your weight in kilos (sorry can't type equations). If the number is between 20 and 24 you're perfect!

Captain Laural and F.O. Hardy

I would expect that BA would note that you are slightly underweight and, if there are no underlying medical problems, leave it at that. They will probably predict that you will fill out in time - we all do!

Hell I'd not give the height in proportion requirement a seconds thought unless you were seriously seriously overweight and I am talking 44inch trousers here:

a) BA have taken some complete lard arse lads over the years - one of them a good mate of mine 5' 7" and 17 stone.

b) If they tried to refuse you on this clause they'd be in a legal minefield:

i) They'd have to prove that they NEVER took anyone of the same or greater weight/height. Have they got the records to hand? Can they be bothered to collate them? Otherwise its employment tribunal time and the judgement WOULD be that they would have to give you the job.

ii) They do not define 'in proportion'. It is therefore meaningless. You saw the advert and applied believeing in good faith that you met all the various requirments. And employment tribunal would strike this clause without blinking an eye.

iii) BA cannot prove that your weight is a significant risk factor for your day to day work as they UNDOUBTABLY have line pilots more obese than you in your 20's

vi) It clearly enfringes the employment requirements of the newly incorporated Human Rights legislation and cases have already been fought and won in other employment areas with regards to obesity.

v) Any defence BA try to mount around health and flight safety are completly nullified by the fact that they do not require applicants to be non-smokers. A condition which is 4 times more likely to result in heart disease or other serious career shortening illnesses.

Frankly I am amazed that they have left the requirment in the brochures. They are leaving themselves wide open to some serious litigation and bad PR. BA HR department never were that sharp!

Good luck with your application,

WWW

Interesting issue indeed, I fly with several very experienced Captains which are far too short for their weight! I guess at their level they don,t have anything to prove.
But.. As a new starter overall appearence is seen as a reflection of attitude and self control and rightly or wrongly,this does make a difference. If you are told otherwise then people are being economical with the truth.
Thankfully most employers are fairly sensible about the issue, however, it's times like the wet drills when a few extra kilos makes getting in the raft a bit of a problem. Like all things, if you can avoid the problem do so.
As an aside, I've never experienced negative remarks concerning underweight.

Thanks guys,

Yet another little issue put in the bag, and well out of mind.

Cheers
:) :) :)

Avenger - I take issue:

"But.. As a new starter overall appearence is seen as a reflection of attitude and self control and rightly or wrongly,this does make a difference."

So how would being overweight be a negative reflection of attitude and self control? Would being spotty, having bad teeth or breath be similarly be seen as lacking self control? What about a poorly ironed shirt or shoes not bearing a smart shine? What about smoking or recreatonal drug use?

"however, it's times like the wet drills when a few extra kilos makes getting in the raft a bit of a problem. Like all things, if you can avoid the problem do so."

Yeah and all the thin smokers who will be gasping and hacking for breath in the event of a cold sea ditching will be long dead whilst their chubbier colleagues are protected by their insulation and energy reserves.

It is my view that BA would be FAR FAR better advised to focus on recreational drug use by its recruits than on idealised weight/image issues.

It really is the issue that everyone would rather not talk about but probably majority of those entering airline pilot training have used recreatonal drugs. I personally have witnessed some continue to do so whilst under sponsored training. I see no likelihood that they would stop upon subsequent graduation...

I think a far more relevant and legally defensible clause in the BA or other airline selection would be a requirement to pass a stringent anti-drugs screening both before acceptance and during training. Compared to this the fact that you might be fat, ugly, smelly or heaven forfend Welsh pales into insignificance...

Cheers,

WWW