you are not wrong willbav8r uses 3-4 gal an hour tis a bit warm on a summers day but in the UK thats not a problem

All great aircraft but correct me if I'm wrong....but don't you have to do a spin for the examiner eventually? I don't think that the warrior does that. Maybe better to be comfortable with one of the others.

tincancowboy,

When I did my RAF FS in August (C152) the only requirment for a student pilot was to have "spin awareness" - i.e. not to spin the aircraft yourself.

When I came to continue my PPL training last month (PA-28 Warrior), the requirements had changed and spinning is now out of the sylabus (rightly or wrongly but thats another thread :))

As to whether it is possible to spin a Warrior I haven't got a clue, but I'd be interested to be told...

FJW.

_____


Pick the Warrior!

Well I have enough of a problem getting a Warrior to do a good Stall never mind a spin. They are nice and stable and kind of mush at the stall speed, nothing quite like a full spin in a cessna or a hairy wingdrop in a katana!! It's correct though that PPL spinning is now over and done with, although I do think one should be demonstrated and you should know what to do if (touch wood) it should ever happen to you!

SB

Speedbird 2946 -

Is it true that the Warriors only have one door? (Occupants having to egress through the one opening in an accident / ditching, etc?)

Yes the Warrior does only have one door. It is on the passanger side.

Eeeek! Gulp.

Although not mentioned on this thread another a/c i'd like to recommend for PPL/CPL/IFR training is the TB10 Tobago and the TB20 Trinidad. TB10 is a very stable a/c and has similar handling characteristics to a warrior(only feels heavier)and it's CSU/115 kts TAS. Although the cockpit layout is somewhat different i like it- more roomy and ergonomic for pax and pilot(s) alike!

Flown all of them, except the 152. I enjoyed the Katana and found it very easy to fly. The only drawbacks would be the heat in the US and you and your FIs size.

I'd steer away from the 172/152 for training as the high wings can give viz problems in the circuit. (Yes, good airmanship prevents this being a problem - but why make it harder than necessary when learning?)

I would go for the C152,

Its such an easy aircraft to manipulate and despite what previous posts have said it is great fun - especially on a cross-control VERY STEEP approach with a cross wind http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/eek.gif . Its such a versatile aircraft and easy to learn in - and cheap.

I never found a problem with Vis so don`t let this put you off. The time will come when you can fly something a bit bigger and classier, start at the bottom and work up.

M13 :) :) :)

Having flown the C 172 and Piper Warrior, my preference would be the warrior. In addition to the significantly better visibility afforded by the warrior, it is an extremely 'smooth' aircraft and very rewarding to land. Having said that i thoroughly enjoyed flying the C 172. My advice is to go and sit in both aircraft and find out which one you find most comfortable.

I know it wasn't on the list but IMHO the Tomahawk is hard to beat for the ab initio. They need to be flown properly and so basic handling skills are learned earlier and more throughly. They are roomy and comfortable with 360 degreees vis. We have found that students get to solo quicker in the PA38 than the C152. I think the visibility in the circuit with the low wings helps a lot, because your main refernece feature ie the runway is always visible, as is the aircraft you are following. Round here it is nearly always the Cessnas that do the enormous circuits especially in strong winds because every time they turn they have to use a reference feature on the landscape instead of the runway, and can then drift off into the wide blue yonder.
For the cross countries the Warrior and the Archer are difficult to beat, and in this climate a lot more stable in turbulence than the C172.
Then you can move on to the Arrow, Cherokee Six etc without having to learn a whole new aircraft.
Having said all that I think too much of a big deal is made of the high/low wing argument; a licenced pilot should be able to fly anything the licence allows them to without a fuss, so long as they understand the fuel systems!

I agree with the others go cheap as theres no point burnung loads of money on a fuel guzzler that will get you there 10 mins earlyer especialy if you are hour building. I know cessnas are a bit crap for vis but it gets bloody hot in a kattana or a warrior so that high wing can be a god send

------------------
jamjar

Hey!
I fly the C172 in schooling and I find it a teriffic a/c for this purpose. It's very stable during T/O and landing and if possible, even more stable in straight and level. If it is the standard with fixed undercarriage, you will find it very forgiving if you bring it down a bit too fast! You can drop a cessna from 10 ft and it will survive, try that with a low-wing a/c.
There is as there will be with the warrior, no problem regarding fuel selection as it is a high-winged a/c. This means one less item on the checklist which may be forgotten during longer flights.
And as for VFR navigation, I would consider the view from a cessna a lot better as there are no wings in the way. I have, however, never flown a warrior, but I flew an Arrow yesterday and, compared to the Cessna, I found it annoying to navigate.
Another thing to consider I think is in which state the a/c are, the quality of the maintenance they've recieved etc and if it is an issue, what equippment they have such as GPS, DME and other goodies. Go with the one with which the least amount of problems are likely to occur (my word: the Cessna 172)
regards/lns

[This message has been edited by low n' slow (edited 24 March 2001).]

[This message has been edited by low n' slow (edited 24 March 2001).]

Some very good points made..make use of it...

Having flown the 152, 172, Katana and Warrior, if money is not a problem, then go with the Warrior. I found that the PA28 was an absolute dream to fly, good solid stability and relatively fast. Good vis with the low wings and nice and roomy.

The 152 is what I have most of my hours on, and I have to say I love it to death, I found that it took no time at all to get used to and its great when you come to do stalls, steep turns, spins etc..etc..Visibility is a bit impaired and it can be a bit cramped hence the 172 might be better...I found that the 172 was also a pleasure to fly. Being about 5 knots faster in all respects (I think) than the 152 its slightly more stable and gives loads more room for the small increase in fuselage dimensions over the 152. Nice handling and it gives a slightly more positive feel when landing, however I find they float more than the 152, however this is just my opinion.

The 152 and 172 are very respectable aircraft and have been the prime means of training, but the Warriors are excellent and are being made use of more than ever, which in my opinion is an excellent thing.

For a PPL level training aircraft I find the Katana quite disappointing. Granted it is great for just pottering around and having a bit of fun, but as said before the Canopy is real hazard to pilot performance, as it is going to make you bake, and hurt your eyes. I find that on the Katana, the trim is awful, you really miss the wheel trim that you find on the Warrior and Cessna range when you step in. It can get very bumpy and I find that sometimes the stick can be hard to manage, its a bit cramped inside a Kat.

The large wings give it loads of lift, and so I found you get shot into the air nice and early, however, on landing it has no problems throwing you back into the air! It is not certified to spin I don't think, and so this is a factor to consider, also it has the worst excuse for a VP prop that I can think of, or maybe this is just my inept ability to use it :) :). However, its a nice little aircraft to have in your logbook after you have done your PPL, quite fun to fly, in light conditions.

So IMHO I would go for the Warrior, then the 172, then the 152, then the Katana. But as I say this is just my view, and others may find it contradictory to them. If you can afford it, go do a half our in each and see which you like best, which is more ergonomic for you, and which you most feel comfortable in.

Most of all enjoy your training,
Rusty

P.S Just to address a few points, no the warrior wont spin, but I know id certainly like to know what its like, the 152 is very hard to make stall, but when it does, it does it a beaut! The 172 will stall a little easier. Im doing what a few others did, learning on the 152, then transfering onto the Warrior. Best flying I ever did though was in a 172 in Barbados!


[This message has been edited by Rusty Cessna (edited 24 March 2001).]

I'd try the 172 as it very versatile and also its what I did most of my training on ...
The Piper is a nice plane and good for x-country work as its comfortable to sit in .
Don't know about the katena as have never flown it ,but heard good things about it .
Anyway good luck on your decision ....

Rusty Cessna and others. Just to clear up a point that is rather important!!

The Warrior will spin. It is not certified for spinning, ie spinning 'prohibited'.

It is a nice stable aircraft; who likes a nice stable spin?!!

Although full spinning is no longer in the UK syllabus for the PPL, it still is in many other countries, such as South Africa. Perhaps it might help if people who post or reply don't assume that everyone on Pprune is from the UK. Please, where appropriate, could posters say which country they are from, or referring to,when dealing with matters such as legislation, flying training etc. Many do, most, unfortunately,do not!

Agreed the warrior will spin- so will any other low wing a/c. In my PPL syllabus i did incipient spins- and left to go longer would have developed into a full spin. This can also be done on the Socata TB-10 Tobago which has similar handling characteristics to the warrior(only has a heavy a/c feel to it).

I remeber watching a programme on sky, where a guy with no aviation experience builds a Europa kit, whilst at the same time, learning to fly. quite a good programme, he it showed a different flying lesson each week. always in the warrior. (4 seats, very handy of cammera man). then the Instructor demonstrates a couple of spins, fully developed, In the warrior. Doh!

I reckon a PA38 Tomahawk is best and I have instructed on may different types of light piston singles.

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