Which training aircraft?
Guest
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Which training aircraft?
Hi ppruners!
I'm faced with an option of four training aircraft to complete a PPL in California, and haven't enough experience to make an intelligent selection.
The price difference is negligible and so is not an issue.
The options are:
Cessna 152
Cessna 172
Piper Warrior
Diamond Katana
Any comments would be much appreciated, and i would particularly welcome information on the Katana.
Cheers!
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"There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots."
I'm faced with an option of four training aircraft to complete a PPL in California, and haven't enough experience to make an intelligent selection.
The price difference is negligible and so is not an issue.
The options are:
Cessna 152
Cessna 172
Piper Warrior
Diamond Katana
Any comments would be much appreciated, and i would particularly welcome information on the Katana.
Cheers!
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"There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots."
Guest
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Go for the cheapest, this will become apparent in the long run, save your money for your next upgrade, like, which twin shall I train on, now there is something to investigate.
Believe me once you have a lot of hours on different type of aircraft under your belt you will say to yourself "why in the dicken's did I spend so much on my training"
This is a question only you can answer once you have gone through the blood sweat and tears of trying to achieve your goal.
Best of luck to you this is one question you need to be happy with yourself
cell city, no radar, another bumpy flight
[This message has been edited by FYWH (edited 19 March 2001).]
Believe me once you have a lot of hours on different type of aircraft under your belt you will say to yourself "why in the dicken's did I spend so much on my training"
This is a question only you can answer once you have gone through the blood sweat and tears of trying to achieve your goal.
Best of luck to you this is one question you need to be happy with yourself
cell city, no radar, another bumpy flight
[This message has been edited by FYWH (edited 19 March 2001).]
Guest
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Having flown 3 of them, and flown as a passenger in the fourth (thats the 172) - I also urge you to go for the Warrior.
Have you seen all these aircraft? If you have then I'm suprised you are even considering the Katana! They are nasty, flimsy little machines compared to the likes of a PA-28 or a 172! They also have less ratings.
The C152 is a good old work horse, but very cramped and not much fun. They also suffer from poor visibility.
The C172 is nicer to fly, and feels like a bigger aircraft. But still suffers from the same poor visibility.
The Warrior, although not the best of the PA-28 family, still beats the rest by miles in my opinion. It is sturdy, and handles a lot more like a big aircraft (So I've been told - I've never flown anything bigger!).
When there are only two of you in the aircraft it's nice that you aren't shoulder to shoulder the whole way (like you are in the other 3). When there are 4 of you, you'll notice that it is still a very comfortable and able cruiser.
If the cost does not vary greatly, and you can afford it, certainly pick one of the 4 seaters. Which one you do pick is, IMHO, a matter of personal taste (High wing v's low wing, Cessna v's Piper etc...) but I know for certain that if it was me, it would be the Warrior every time.
Good luck, and let us know your choice!
FJW.
PS: Having completed the majority of my PPL on the Warrior - i.e. a 4 seater, it is a point well worth remembering that if you pair up with a buddy, you will be able to sit in the back for each others flights to act as revision/forward teaching.
I have completed many hours as a passenger in the back of a Warior watching and learning. It is surprising what I have learnt whilst being able to concentrate solely on what is being taught in the front whilst letting someone else actually fly the thing! (You can then make notes, diagrams etc...)
The bottom line is, pick one of the 4 seaters, you'd be mad to go for a 2 seater if you can afford more!
Have you seen all these aircraft? If you have then I'm suprised you are even considering the Katana! They are nasty, flimsy little machines compared to the likes of a PA-28 or a 172! They also have less ratings.
The C152 is a good old work horse, but very cramped and not much fun. They also suffer from poor visibility.
The C172 is nicer to fly, and feels like a bigger aircraft. But still suffers from the same poor visibility.
The Warrior, although not the best of the PA-28 family, still beats the rest by miles in my opinion. It is sturdy, and handles a lot more like a big aircraft (So I've been told - I've never flown anything bigger!).
When there are only two of you in the aircraft it's nice that you aren't shoulder to shoulder the whole way (like you are in the other 3). When there are 4 of you, you'll notice that it is still a very comfortable and able cruiser.
If the cost does not vary greatly, and you can afford it, certainly pick one of the 4 seaters. Which one you do pick is, IMHO, a matter of personal taste (High wing v's low wing, Cessna v's Piper etc...) but I know for certain that if it was me, it would be the Warrior every time.
Good luck, and let us know your choice!
FJW.
PS: Having completed the majority of my PPL on the Warrior - i.e. a 4 seater, it is a point well worth remembering that if you pair up with a buddy, you will be able to sit in the back for each others flights to act as revision/forward teaching.
I have completed many hours as a passenger in the back of a Warior watching and learning. It is surprising what I have learnt whilst being able to concentrate solely on what is being taught in the front whilst letting someone else actually fly the thing! (You can then make notes, diagrams etc...)
The bottom line is, pick one of the 4 seaters, you'd be mad to go for a 2 seater if you can afford more!
Guest
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Warrior would be my first choice. 172 the second.
The warrior is a great Aircraft, stable, flatering to land, there are loads back in the UK, (More 152 but IMHO there awfull to fly) My prefrence is also to low wings, nicer views. If you want to take flying further, Arrow is the same family as the Warrior, but wiggly props and wheels. then the Senica for a multi-engine.
The Cessena Range is less alike between Aircraft, however the 172 is very nice to fly, quite heavy and stable.
The Katana is like a Oven in California, with the big bubble canopy and no air-con, very uncomfortable, I've never flown one, but I'm told their very glider like, and there is a bigger transition to other light aircraft types.
If the Choice is their go for the Warrior.
The warrior is a great Aircraft, stable, flatering to land, there are loads back in the UK, (More 152 but IMHO there awfull to fly) My prefrence is also to low wings, nicer views. If you want to take flying further, Arrow is the same family as the Warrior, but wiggly props and wheels. then the Senica for a multi-engine.
The Cessena Range is less alike between Aircraft, however the 172 is very nice to fly, quite heavy and stable.
The Katana is like a Oven in California, with the big bubble canopy and no air-con, very uncomfortable, I've never flown one, but I'm told their very glider like, and there is a bigger transition to other light aircraft types.
If the Choice is their go for the Warrior.
Guest
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I did my PPL in a 152, but if I had my time again, I'd do it in one with the best visibility, since you want your lookout to develop well, and the Katana or the Warrior are the best for this. Personally, out of those two I would go for the cheapest, but to be honest, you'll have fun whatever you fly.
Guest
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I would go for the Katana, Its not a ” nasty, flimsy little machine" its very strong, its also got a wobbly prop, cruses at 110kts and very nice to fly. The Pa 28’s aren’t bad but the 172’s like driving a bus with flat tyres. Have a go see if you enjoy it!!. I’ve got loads of hours in katana’s and they are very capable little aeroplanes. BTW a local flying school uses them and people tend to go solo quicker in them than anything else.
Guest
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4DME,
Hello there.. what a can of worms you have opened here. Well, I trained on the C152, did one hour on C172, converted to PA28 then did conversion course for Katana also. There are mixed opinions about all of these, but the basics are right in this thread!
C152- THE workhorse of pilot training around the world, but yes, cramped if you are tall, large or your instructor is either (or both) of these! Saying that though it handles just fine, it is sturdy but still can do aeros and is probably going to be the cheapest option.
C172- I flew a brand new one in the states, leather seats and all the Gucci kit. NICE! It handled to me quite like a C152 and was nice and roomy, with space for your friends! I definitely prefer low wing aircraft, but not so much that I won't fly high wings! It's just that you get nicer view of the countryside!
PA28-Airlines go for this one, OATS and BAe etc. Cabair train on AA5A/B which are also 4-seat, low wing a/c. PA28 is roomy, a pleasure to fly as it is smooth, and has okay visibility.
Katana- well I find these a pleasure to fly. Vis is excellent and they obviously have a stick, not a yoke. They have long wings, handle lightly but still cruise nice and fast and are fun to fly. Cramped also if you/instructor are tall/large but still nice.
If money REALLY isn't an option (at all) then I'd see if you can get onto the Warrior. But as has been said, it doesn't really matter what aircraft you begin to fly. So long as you enjoy flying you can be taught to fly any aircraft as well as another!
GOOD LUCK!!
SB 2946
Hello there.. what a can of worms you have opened here. Well, I trained on the C152, did one hour on C172, converted to PA28 then did conversion course for Katana also. There are mixed opinions about all of these, but the basics are right in this thread!
C152- THE workhorse of pilot training around the world, but yes, cramped if you are tall, large or your instructor is either (or both) of these! Saying that though it handles just fine, it is sturdy but still can do aeros and is probably going to be the cheapest option.
C172- I flew a brand new one in the states, leather seats and all the Gucci kit. NICE! It handled to me quite like a C152 and was nice and roomy, with space for your friends! I definitely prefer low wing aircraft, but not so much that I won't fly high wings! It's just that you get nicer view of the countryside!
PA28-Airlines go for this one, OATS and BAe etc. Cabair train on AA5A/B which are also 4-seat, low wing a/c. PA28 is roomy, a pleasure to fly as it is smooth, and has okay visibility.
Katana- well I find these a pleasure to fly. Vis is excellent and they obviously have a stick, not a yoke. They have long wings, handle lightly but still cruise nice and fast and are fun to fly. Cramped also if you/instructor are tall/large but still nice.
If money REALLY isn't an option (at all) then I'd see if you can get onto the Warrior. But as has been said, it doesn't really matter what aircraft you begin to fly. So long as you enjoy flying you can be taught to fly any aircraft as well as another!
GOOD LUCK!!
SB 2946
Guest
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I aggree with Speedbird 2946!
I've trained in them all and it doesn't matter which one you train in. They all have their pros and cons as Speedbird has already stated. I would try them all along the way, but stick to one during the private training.
I seem to remember the Katana having electrical problems. You had to get it started quikly or the battery would drain. Has that been fixed?
I've trained in them all and it doesn't matter which one you train in. They all have their pros and cons as Speedbird has already stated. I would try them all along the way, but stick to one during the private training.
I seem to remember the Katana having electrical problems. You had to get it started quikly or the battery would drain. Has that been fixed?
Guest
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I saved about £400 by training in the C150, then did a 2 hr check flight, to upgrade to the Warrior. When you've got the PPL, the Warrior is the far better aircraft to build hours in, as it has a far greater range and speed. If I had to re-do my PPl, I'd be happy to do it in the C150 again, although the warrior feels more like 'big real' aircraft. It seems odd, that you say there is a negligable cost difference between the aircraft.
P.S. Don't try steep, slow C150 approaches in a Warrior (unless your aim is to entertain all spectators with your multiple landings (A320 crew at SFD, FL, in my case)).
ickle [edited for typo]
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If God had meant man to fly, He would have given him more money.
[This message has been edited by ickle black box (edited 20 March 2001).]
P.S. Don't try steep, slow C150 approaches in a Warrior (unless your aim is to entertain all spectators with your multiple landings (A320 crew at SFD, FL, in my case)).
ickle [edited for typo]
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If God had meant man to fly, He would have given him more money.
[This message has been edited by ickle black box (edited 20 March 2001).]
Guest
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It all comes down to cost. However, I would feel that the most stable platform would be the PA-28 Warrior. I have many hours in these things and they are great to fly. I cant give any good points towards the Cessna fleet as I have never flown them, so naturally I'm biased towards the Piper fleet.
The most important decision you should be making, is where I'm going to do my CPL/IR course and what aircraft is that on. The more stable and slower it is, the better. Trust me - when you do it you'll know what I'm mean!
Good Luck
Homer
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Duff, Duff, that Wonderful stuff. Ummmmm Doughnuts
The most important decision you should be making, is where I'm going to do my CPL/IR course and what aircraft is that on. The more stable and slower it is, the better. Trust me - when you do it you'll know what I'm mean!
Good Luck
Homer
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Duff, Duff, that Wonderful stuff. Ummmmm Doughnuts
Guest
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I agree with IBB: save your money, train in the C150 then upgrade to the Warrior. Save your money for hour building. Of course it they're all the same price (strange!) start off in the Warrior.
I wouldn't learn from scratch in the 172, it's a heavy old tub and not the easiest to land well, the Warrior is much more forgiving.
Good Luck!
TAFO
I wouldn't learn from scratch in the 172, it's a heavy old tub and not the easiest to land well, the Warrior is much more forgiving.
Good Luck!
TAFO
Guest
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Go for the cheapest. When you finish you will want to do more and it all costs
What you did your PPL in makes no difference. It usually takes about 1 hour post ppl to convert to any of the other ac you mention. (In fact I can't tell any marked difference between all of the mentioned aircraft when I fly them)
In california i always try to fly High wings (C152, C172) because the view (down) is better. Also the high wing shelters some of the effect of the sun in the A/c. (They get like ovens out there. )
152's are a bit cramped if you and your intructor are a bit large. On the other hand Cessnas don't have fuel pumps to remember to turn on and 152s have a both setting on the fuel selector so you don't have to change tanks all of the time (little things, none of which override the first line of this post).
Have a damn good time.
What you did your PPL in makes no difference. It usually takes about 1 hour post ppl to convert to any of the other ac you mention. (In fact I can't tell any marked difference between all of the mentioned aircraft when I fly them)
In california i always try to fly High wings (C152, C172) because the view (down) is better. Also the high wing shelters some of the effect of the sun in the A/c. (They get like ovens out there. )
152's are a bit cramped if you and your intructor are a bit large. On the other hand Cessnas don't have fuel pumps to remember to turn on and 152s have a both setting on the fuel selector so you don't have to change tanks all of the time (little things, none of which override the first line of this post).
Have a damn good time.
Guest
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I would say go for the cheapest.
I trained mostly in C152s and occasionally C150s. Once I had got my PPL, then I had the opportunity to make use of the extra capacity that the 172 offered. In my view flying the C172 for training was pointless since I would not be using the 2 seats in the back and it would cost more in the long run!
Enjoy your flying!!!!
MG
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Don't land in a field or the sheep will eat the aircraft.
I trained mostly in C152s and occasionally C150s. Once I had got my PPL, then I had the opportunity to make use of the extra capacity that the 172 offered. In my view flying the C172 for training was pointless since I would not be using the 2 seats in the back and it would cost more in the long run!
Enjoy your flying!!!!
MG
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Don't land in a field or the sheep will eat the aircraft.
Guest
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I've only flown the Warrior, so of course my vote is for that.
However, if hour building, the Katana at a dry rate will save shed loads.
Correct me if I am wrong, but it uses a lot less fuel (gph)?
Whatever the choice (Warrior by this thread) have fun!
However, if hour building, the Katana at a dry rate will save shed loads.
Correct me if I am wrong, but it uses a lot less fuel (gph)?
Whatever the choice (Warrior by this thread) have fun!
Guest
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I did my inital training in a PA28 Archer, so i would say take the Warrior. It's a Piper, but for initial training it's okay.
The C-152 is slow, low-powered, cramped and no fun to fly at all, especially if it's hot.
About the other two types do i know nothing.
For IFR-training i suggest a plane like a Beech Bonanza F33/A36, they're superb for that kind of training, very easy to fly, fast enough for some crosscountry-flying and very reliable. I've flown some with more than 14.000 Hours and they flew still great.
Denti
The C-152 is slow, low-powered, cramped and no fun to fly at all, especially if it's hot.
About the other two types do i know nothing.
For IFR-training i suggest a plane like a Beech Bonanza F33/A36, they're superb for that kind of training, very easy to fly, fast enough for some crosscountry-flying and very reliable. I've flown some with more than 14.000 Hours and they flew still great.
Denti