Hi Redsnail,

Thanks. After reading these forums extensively I had wondered how to avoid becoming one of those airline pilots that doesn't know how to fly. So gliding seems like a good hobby to get into. I've got in touch with Surrey Hills Gliding Club over at Kenley Aerodrome (if anyone is familiar with it), so we'll see if it's something I can afford at the moment.

Any other words of wisdom out there?

If you got into OAA why not apply for one of the airline cadet programmes? Would be better to be attached to an airline instead of going it alone?

Hi Pilot2be2,

Whilst that would definitely be the ideal situation, unfortunately the likes of BA, EasyJet and even W!ZZ Air over at CTC all require A-Levels, which regrettably I am lacking in. Furthermore, most of them are closed at the moment, and won't likely open until the autumn for an intake next spring. Couple that with the fierce competition for places on these cadet programs, it will delay the start of my training significantly with little chance of me being in any better of a position. I'm keen to get my training done and my foot on the first rung of that ladder as quickly as possible as who knows how long this period of growth in the industry will last.

I'd like to know how you guys think about Korean Airline Pilot Program (K-APP) with F
 

Subject: I'd like to know how you guys think about Korean Airline Pilot Program (K-APP) with FSA (Flight Safety Academy, Florida).

Hello I'm from South Korea and gonna take K-APP in a few months. Actually I'm a student of Korea Aerospace University (KAU) and KAU offers me a 1,000hr Flight Training Program called K-APP.

The course is: (All these costs are included housing and living expenses)
Phase 1: Ground school (at KAU) : about $4,000
Phase 2: Flight Training at FSA (Beginner~CPL, 250hr): $86,000
Phase 3: Time building (250~1,000hr) from FSA Instructor ($44,000) or F/O at Ameriflight ($57,000) - Phase 3 cost could be loaned from national bank.

K-APP students can fail at every phase. Since the program has started, about 20% of students have failed. Once they drop out, they cannot apply to KE or LJ for his lifetime.
But if they successfully survive to the program, they can apply to KE (KE does not guarantee to pass them, but I've heard most of those survivors have joined KE.).

My questions are:
1. How do you think about this program? If you get a chance to take this program, would you do it? now I'm considering joining to usual flight academy because of failure rate, disadvantages of failure, and expenses (I have to pay total expense $150,000 of 1,000hr.). Which course is better do you think? Please give me some advise.
2. If someone who are studying in FSA is there, could you advise me how much time will it take for the Phase 2? I heard FSA has so many students that flying schedules are often delayed. And could you tell me how difficult it is to succeed in their course?

pilot wannabe
 

hello guys, i am new to this website, and I want to get some advice about becoming a pilot but dont know where to start.

I am 17 years old and just about to do my GSCEs, after GSCE's I want to join a flight school, I have looked at some in the UK, that do everything for £60,000 (PPL, ATPL and MCC) and I have looked abroad too, Namely at Emirates Avation Uni, but its a ridiculous amount to pay for an 18 month course, (£108,000)

I dont know where to start, so some advice would be appriciated
cheers

should i go for the job of my dreams? help please
 

hello everybody


i have always dreamed of becoming an airline pilot few days ago i decided that it's about time i go for it i have family in canada and USA and they said they will help go to any good school in there
so i started reading articles about it pilot career... some of them says thats it's the best time to start and some says that alot of pilots out there cant find a job i really dont know what to believe or what to do and im so sad about it .
i want to make this big step but im afraid at the end it will for nothing and then i ll have to find an other job and all that time and money will be a waste
would some body please help me i am really lost here.:(

thank you in advence

Hi everyone. I am 27 year old doctor living in Turkey, i have graduated from med school on 2014. i always wanted to be a pilot but because of some reasons i had do choose medicine. but after years i feel that i dont belong here, i mean i love this profession, helping people but dreams ..you know. I am in a situation that cant apply for fully funded cadet programs in Turkey (thy, sunexpress, atlasjet etc.) because i am not a Turkish citizen..I have to pay for all my education and go to private school. as you understand its really hard to quit and start for a new career and at the end its not 100% that i will easly find job. Would like to hear your opinions about it. Thanks all

If you have the right to live and work in the EU you can apply for cadet schemes with BA, Easy jet, Aer Lingus etc.

If you're a doctor you should be able to do a bit more research into the avenues that are open to you but there is no magic formula and you could find that you hate the commercial aviation industry even more than medicine. :E

Be careful and good luck.

Advice On Routes to becoming a Commercial Pilot
 

Hi there, i am an aspiring airline pilot and am currently looking at the different routes to becoming a pilot. I am looking at the integrated route and understand there is a big financial gap to overcome before being able to undergo this integrated training. I was just wondering how anyone who is a successful pilot or is currently undergoing training managed to finance this. Also how some pilots have managed to do it without having the bank of mum and dad. I am also looking at the RAF route as it can help me learn to fly and save up in the mean time to convert across to commercial after my time of service. Any advice on these subjects would be massively appreciated!

Hey artie711,

Learning to fly is totally awesome and even better when you obtain your PPL.

I live in Johannesburg, South Africa so I learn't how to become a pilot with a local aviation school called Airborne Aviation (Airborne Aviation - Flight School South Africa).

We are very lucky with the weather due to the climate in South Africa so I was able to spend more time in the air and getting hands on with the aircraft rather than sitting in the class room.

I have been to the north of France in the past and know that whilst summers are nice, the winters can be challenging in the sky.

I would recommend taking the time to learning how to fly in a country that almost guarantees good flying conditions all year round so that you can get maximum airtime in a shorter space in time if that is possible for you.

Hope this advice helps.

Happy flying :)

Hello all!
 

Hello!

My name is Adam and I am 16 from Newcastle! I'm often found at the foot of either Runway 07 or 25 at Newcastle International; it's fair to say aviation is the thing I have the most passion and drive for.

Why, you may wonder, am I here? Pure and simple: advice! With so many conflicting views regarding the best route to the flight deck, I thought I best join somewhere which can help me sort the fact from the fiction from what I have read and heard, in the hope that, one day, I will be able to give advice to others where I am now.

My aspiration is to be a commercial pilot, I don't care for which airline (within reason!), I just want to fly.

My post centres mainly around my aim to begin training for my PPL and also which A level subjects I have chosen.

Although I have not yet committed to anything, I think I will be studying A levels in Biology, Geography, Government and Politics and History. It is my understanding that maths and physics are non-essential, which is excellent as on the whole they are not my strongest subjects, but I fully understand the areas relevant to flight (it's circle theorems and optical fibres that go over my head :ugh:).

In regards to whether or not it is a good idea to do my PPL now, please let me know. I want to begin training over the summer, since I have 11 weeks of freedom. I doubt it will be, but please asvise if this is a bad idea.

I hope that is all leads nicley on to integrated training for an ATPL licence, but, if it doesn't, please tell me :ok:

Thank you very much for reading this far, and I look forward to being a part of this forum

It is essential to have some sort of other education and preferably work experience you can fall back on. In this light, it is perfectly ok to pick your A-levels according to your best ability. If those subjects are what you can excel at academically, they will lead you to a matching degree with good grades, and motivated work. Which is a much better back up than a mediocre engineering or science degree that never got you a job because you chose something you are not good at, just for its "relevance". You might give it a thought to get into a field that could be used in aviation, because it might give you valuable contacts for pilot jobs, as well as keep you in the business should you encounter some kind of medical trouble or whatever, that could make you an ex-pilot. (Yeah I know, not the primary thought for a 16yo, but it´s a reality - !!!! happens everywhere). In this case, you would be better off switching to one of your airlines´ ground departments, than having to start over with something you haven´t looked at for 10-20 years, with an old degree.

Other than that, if you can do your PPL at 16 and talk about "getting your" ATPL just like that, you are probably comfortably sponsored by your parents. So all in all, with a privileged outlook to getting a degree and then obtaining an ATPL with no significant debt, you stand a good chance to ride off the rougher waves of the aviation business.

Just go on with what you´re doing, your folks seem to have money and you have decades of time to shape this out nicely, which puts you at the top of the wannabe food chain already.

Q. I have absolutely ZERO knowledge in this area, and yes I admit I could scower the web for these answers, but I thought I'd try my luck here!..
I'm living in the UK, what sort of time period and general cost would it be for a PPL?

And in the flight training world, how does one go by learning to fly say a vintage WW2 aircraft?....

p.s I'm loving the positivity in this thread!

Spotting at Newcastle......a good start.

Your ultimate goal to fly......excellent. The question is what is the best path to achieve it.
Stay at school, do well in the 'A' levels. Maths, Physics, & English at 'O' level with descent grades. Probably higher education so that aged 21/22 you have sufficient maturity to start with the professional training.
Obtain your class one medical.
Now the choice is Integrated or Modular route.
No advantage in doing your PPL just yet.
Try some gliding first. Visit ATC Newcastle.

Are you just looking to do the degree to get funds to pay for both the degree and flight? There is Epic Flight Academy who offers flight training financing through someone but I'm not sure but it's based off of your motivation and not credit. Since you're from France you might not have credit so this would be good. Or you can always try Everglades University if your heart is set on a degree while training because it's all online.

Modular
 

Ive just finished my a-levels merely passing with poor grades however am very passionate about becoming a commercial pilot. I am looking to undergo the modular route and was wondering how damaging are poor a levels to my chances.
Kind regards.

Indirect impact
 

A-Levels results themselves should not be too big a deal to be a commercial pilot but it seems, from reading the forums, that it is more and more common to at least have a university degree if you are aiming for bigger airlines.

So you will still probably want to get a degree, and that's really where bad results affect you more.

Costs €70,000 to get the full licence in Cork, is it worth it?

Come to Canada. It is cheaper, by a mile.

I have free accommodation in Cork while I'm doing the course, what's the costs in Canada?

I'm at Harv's Air in Manitoba. To CPL should be about 45K-50K CAD.

Accommodation here is available at $410CAD/Mth if you fly more than 15 hours a month.

Would you rather just be told if airlines consider you too old?
 

As oppose to been told they don't discrimate on age (maybe because they're aren't allowed to) would you rather just be told by the airlines in clear terms "we don't take any SO or FO s over 30 years without prior commercial experience and 500 hours on aircraft in excess of 20 tonnes MTOM" or whatever?

That way theres no ambiguity and people can concentrate on reacreational flying or call it a day altogether with aviation and dedicate time to other things in life.Like achievable career goals family....etc.

(First post!)

I'm 19 and I've wanted to be an airline pilot for years. At the minute, I'm studying a fairly prestigious politics degree which includes a year's worth of work experience working in Parliament in the UK (I live in the UK). Until a few months ago, the dream was in the back of my mind. I put myself off pursuing it when I was around 16 because I knew that my parents wouldn't be able to fund it. This is still the case.

Yesterday, I had my first ever flight in a GA plane. It was a trial flight from Sherburn Aero Club in a PA-28. Absolutely loved every minute of it and I didn't want to come down. I had a smile on my face for the whole ride and I wish I could go back up today! But obviously, money's the biggest problem...

I'm doing fairly well financially as a student. I don't spend any money at all on going out and drinking at uni so I'm doing okay compared to most. Obviously, I can't fund flying on this money though as it's not a constant stream of money. Yesterday, although it only lasted an hour, was the decider that I want to pursue my licenses, and if possible to pursue a career in aviation. But I'm stuck with that money problem, and I don't know what I can do.

Overall, there's a few questions I have in mind:

1) Would it be possible to fund it during university, or should I wait 'til I graduate? Basically, does anyone have any experiences in this case?
2) If I choose to wait until I graduate, will it be then too late to pursue a career as a pilot? I know there are many variables!
3) What's the general age at which it's seen as being too late to go into airlines?

Also, would my degree actually help me out in aviation? I know for sure that I won't drop out as I would like the backup of a degree. But my year in Westminster etc. can't hurt my CV, can it?

Thanks in advance.

Flight school and first flying job
 

Hello everyone! I am finally following my dream and hope to join a flight school in preferably the next 3 months but before I choose my destination I need to minimize the chances of me being an an employed pilot like many I know. Would it be wiser to join the EASA internship course in the European flight centre where you get all the necessary licenses FAA & EASA and build around 1000 hours more or less (if given a job). Or the second plan is to train in australia and then upon completion try to instruct or get any flying job, but this plan as I think is risky because and correct me if I'm wrong pilots and flight instructors do not fall under the skilled workers in australia. Keep in mind that (frozen) atpl is the minimum requirement to the airlines in my country and region, but of course there are hundreds waiting for a job with low hours so I need to build a few hundred hours maybe a thausand to get ahead. Which path do you think will work out better? I'm open to other suggestions as well I don't mind flying anywhere as long as i fly. And oh please don't suggest Canada as it seemed great but i have tried to get a visa twice and they wasted 6 months of my life only to refuse with no obvious reason, their process was VERY slow. Appreciate your help.

@markevans
I came on this forum, because i'm looking for clues on what flight schools and and where i can go, been researching on different school in SA,but i'm very happy that you made mention of Airborne Aviation, can you tell more about the flight smh and what is the cost implication of doing PPL with them,I would love if we can communicate as regards this as its will make my decision making on what flight school to attend a lot easier,
thanks

Hi there
 

Hi guys new member derek from Glasgow.

To cut a long story short I have been interested in aviation since school but not coming from a background where becoming an airline pilot was thought to be possible financially etc it was always on the back burner with memorable conversations with parents and careers advisers telling me you can't do that!

Basically just now I'm a self employed heating and ventilation engineer about to embark on training to get my ppl first off and then onto most probably a modular course to gain my commercial licence.

I've managed to save up the cost of the training up over the past year and a bit so have just over £50k to invest in my training.

Can anyone give me advice of flying schools please ?

How I will do it - Plan of action
 

Alright ,this will be a long ,long ,long road that I am prepared to take but it will be worth it and that feeling of doing it all through hard work will be much sweeter.Fast forward 7-8 years from today ,I see my self with my fATPL.

At 21 years old ,I have 3 kids a,3 step sons and a very supportive other half all in one roof.
I am currently working full time ,self employed doing security work and furniture delivery.I literally have no off days which means I end up with just over 2k a month. Some bills paid ,cash saved and reduced family time is the result.

No holidays ,fancy clothes or other treats that can all always come later in life.

I have around 30 hours of PPL training ,solo done and savings of 5k to get me through my PPL with the 6 exams left .I am hoping to be done by February - April depending on the weather and aiming to fly 10 hours a month.I think it is achievable.:*

Ideally by April I would like to have my PPL with me .In the meantime I will be saving £500+ a month until June to fund the Bristol ground school package which will cost around £3500 (test fees included)
After my PPL ,it is the ATPL theory and hour building to keep current .2 years from June 2017 I hope to have ATPL done and the 100+ hours needed to start CPL. This time frame will give me time to also put some money away for the CPL £7k at PTT Aviation which is where I intend to finish all my training.

N/B: It will probably be wise to also listen out on any fully sponsored cadet schemes such as the Aer lingus,BA ones etc.

I am estimating the CPL course to take me 3 - 4 months to complete subject to my availability and weather.By this time ,it will be nearing the end of 2019.

After CPL I will get my ME then carry on working for the next 3 years to save up for the expensive IR.
IR done ,on to the MCC and JOC.
If no opportunities come up after this then I will save again to get my instructor rating and enjoy being a pilot and a teacher till bigger doors open.

I believe it is one of the best ways to do it if you are not blessed with rich parents or other quick access avenues .
My jobs are secured as the companies I work for are very established and we are currently expanding :D

My advice to fellow inspiring pilots is do not get pressured when you see 18/19 year olds being offered jobs at various airlines through such and such ATO. You simply do not have to sell your grandma to become a pilot .Keep your head up ,work hard and remember if it is your ultimate dream then you will achieve it !
I am not experienced enough but I have spoken to a lot of people in the industry and as you probably already know ,it mostly about who you know.It is a small world. A close relative who is a captain could not stress how many CV`s literally end up in the bin .

Point is ,have an open mind ,train ,build your network and keep your log book clean. At least that is what I intend to do.

I will post back in April to update on my training :ok:

Good luck. However, if you are going to work for 3 years to save for the IR, would you not be better off relaxing and enjoying the experience and spreading your training out. Trying to rush it will stress you out, trust me on this, make your plan but have a life as well.

Worst case scenario! If something dreadful happened in a year or two's time how would you feel about having given everything and having very little to show for it?

Under JAA, after finishing exams it was 18 month to do the CPL and 36 months to complete the IR, I don't think EASA have changed this? you wont be able to save for three years for the IR as your exam credits will expire. However you could do a Single Engine IR by the compentency based IR route at a lower expense to preserve your exam credits and then upgrade it later to a Multi IR later on. I would recommend for the CPL to try and take a month off to finish it, doing it part time will drag it out and more than likely you will end up doing more hours to complete it. Plus don't under estimate trying to do training along side your busy schedule.

The other thing to consider is getting your first flying job will involve relocating and / or staying away. It isn't easy to uproot children for a short time and first officer pay is rarely enough to pay mortgage in one location and rent in another. Completing the training was not the difficult part, finding a job not as such the difficult part either. Getting a job that pays enough and fits with family life, that is tricky.

Good luck; btw self employed security work can fit well around part time flight instructing. The other thing to consider is you could do CPL-FI, start instructing and building hours before doing your IR.

This is going to go down like a lead balloon. But if you've got three kids then how about taking that money and providing a great life for them, especially through the formative years. Get a PPL and a decent land based job, fly for fun and do family holidays!

Coming to the end of an MPl with sponsorship and employment, but, I've been in this industry a long time and I've seen it from all sides. Just playing devils advocate that being in the pointy end isn't the be all and end all.

I don't think this is correct - I believe you have 36 months from passing your last ATPL theory exam to get both the CPL and IR.

Whilst it's admirable that you want to save up to pay for everything - gaps of 3 years are only going to make things harder. By all means save up to get your PPL, hour building and ATPL exams. But don't think ATPL's will be easy - especially if you are working full time. I timed out on my first set and basically gave up work for 3 months to get them done. If you do your ME course, then wait 3 years to start your IR, you'll end up having to do it all again anyway. Best to group everything together as much as possible - use the MEP training as a warm-up for MEIR (You don't need to pass the MEP test, only the IR test!) I would recommend saving to get hour building and ATPLs done, then borrow the last £20k for CPL/IR. You'll get into the game 3 years earlier and have a career 3 years longer. By the time you retire, those final 3 years salary will have paid for your second home in Spain. Put it on a 0% card, it's not like you'd have to mortgage the house. You have 18 months from your first ATPL exam to finish them, then 3 years from the last exam to get both CPL and IR.

Honestly, you're 21 years old, already responsible for a wife an three (!) kids, and not educated. Do you REALLY think it's a sound financial investment for yourself or your family?

Also, rethink your timeline. You're much much better off saving until you can fund the entirety of your course in one go, to minimize downtime and out-of-currency expenses, and to make your CV stronger.

Have you thought about doing this as a hobby only? No shame in it ..

Leaving aside we have absolutely no idea what the job market will look like in 7-8 years so far, so good...

Ok.

You might think that, having had kids myself I think in all honesty you are going to have trouble with holding that line for 7 years plus, (especially if the kids are young). What happens post the fATPL - Will it all hold together if you end up working for a company that requires you to be flexible about where you are based?

I know there's the standard line of "you've got to be in it to win" but I'd suggest if you haven't done so just for a while forget "living the dream" and sit down for really long chat with your airline pilot relative and grill him/her on the realities of the job - not the rose tinted specs version.. I mean the realities of pay scales, early starts, late finishes, split shifts, possible commuting/basing.

If you do that and still go ahead with your plan then in all honesty good luck.

That is a good point ,I will be best of taking time off and finish off CPL when ready and as some have suggested borrow money for the IR to be within the timescale.

I agree getting the job that pays enough and fits well with my life will be the biggest hurdle .All I can do is stay positive and cross one bridge at a time.
Thanks for your sound advice

I partially agree. However if it's something you want to do there is no turning off the desire. And for those of us who work to fund it and go down the hard route, the desire is often impossible to ignore. Aviation is a beautiful mistress with a tendency to be a cold hard bitch capable of heartbreak.

Personally I think this should be more about asking the questions to get the OP to think about his path, not dissuading him.

Ofcourse it is a sound investment .I do not intend to get in to a debate about wha is the definition of stuccess.As far as I am aware different paths can take you to the same destination.Just a difference in specific individual cirmustances is what influences us to pursue other ways of being successful.
Perhaps your idea of a great investment is having a degree ? Which depending on the course it can last anything from 3-6 (masters,PHD ).Again you can aslo question one who goes down that route ,including the loans from University ,time ,family etc .Ofcourse with no guarantee of a job.
I was achieved A star in GSCE Mathematics ,Physics,Chemistry ,Biology and English Literature .The rest were C graded.I also hold a BEng in Aeronautical Engineering having graduated when I was 20. A qualified cupping therapist to add to that.
I must say you sound a little bit judgemental but my apologies if it is not the case .

With regards to saving to do it all at once , I will be happy to have my PPL first ,ATPL and 150+ hours and end up borrowing for the IR and CPL .I have always been a go getter and very positive minded and doors will open ! :)

Success is not guaranteed either, especially (unfortunately) more so for modular guys.

I imagine being an FI is pretty much a no go either, considering your financial commitments to your spouse&kids

I appreciate your concerns
and advice .Do not get me wrong kids are very happy spending every second we can together.Apart from major holidays they have a cheerful lifestyle.I am adamant I have it in balance .
Furthermore it is vital you have a supportive spouse and work as a team.:)

The crunch ,as you say will be about split shifts ,late finishes etc which in all honesty is a valid consideration as I think many pilots have been or are in this situation.