He Poor English,

If you read your flight internnational 3 years ago at the same time as your SR prediction you would have found an ad for Eagle jet selling ratings from small to 737's. If you looked back 10 years you would have found ads for Eagle jet or similar companies. Ever saw the name of Gulfstream? They have been selling ratings and flight time for years.. You are just a single minded person so ****** off..

:mad:

regional guy,
you are correct, it's possible to work in the states if you find someone ready to sponsore you and with the approbation by the DOL (Department of labor)and the INS. A Flight instructor in the USA can log up to 2000 h of C152 and light multi-engine, and after? after everybody will laugh at you and no regional airlines will hire an european pilot cuz Regional airline pilots have Union which means:" green card or go home with your 2000h".I know what I am talking about, I have several european friends stuck in the states, making 800 US dollars per month and no futur.If it was easy, everybody would go to the states!!!
I know an airline pilot, told me one day :"I do not understand why pilots fight like this ".Apparently it's a dream job, but when you fly commercialy everyday, can be a pain in the butt to fly".
I will tell you later why there will be no job for the next 10 years.I am just worried than flight schools will try to threat me.

Poor-Pilot,

you are without any doubt so full of S*** it's gotta be coming out of your ears!!!! :mad:

"I will tell you later why there will be no job for the next 10 years.I am just worried than flight schools will try to threat me."

You know what, please spare us!!!!
About working in a US regional, I never said you can do that on a visa, you do need a green-card. BUT, I have several friends that worked here as instructors, and are now flying in airlines, or corporate, in Europe and Asia. Do NOT tell me it it's impossible, it might be hard, but FAR from impossible. Maybe people like you that expect everything to fall into their lap won't cut it in the aviation industry, but for people that are willing to work hard, there will always be a way! So, as I said, you DO NOT know what the f*** you are talking about.
To everyone else, I'm sorry for bringing this losers thread up to the top again, but I had to let some steam out....

The forecast need for economists...

..at our company is looking extremely bleak. We have watched all sorts of companies employing economists go down the drain. We saw Swissair, who employed some geniuss & later his replacement. And a lot of other companies along those lines. So, no way, sir - none of those economists for us!

As we are in the segment of business growing, and based on the assumption that our competitors are just as smart as us (or have had their economists drag them under), I expect that the entire industry will soon have made economists obsolete.

Soon, everybody else will discover how we make money without any economists, while those that employ such @rses go down the drain. We will be a leading beacon for all other economic sectors, causing:

EVERLASTING UNEMPLOYMENT!!!
for
ALL ECONOMISTS!!!

And all the torements of hell will descend upon your sorry little heads! :mad: Forever! And Ever! :eek: Ha-ha-haaaaaaaaaaah!!!

:D AMEN! :D

What a load of flipping rubbish :mad: :mad: :mad:

Poor pilot
Poor student
Poor economist
Poor loser

With that attitude, is there any doubt about your future?

You will be poor.

I pity you.

I have to agree with most of you Poor Pilot is talking complete rubbish BUT i do get the impression that most of you are kidding yourself and will be very lucky to see employment within the next 18-24 months. I think its great to keep your spirits up and is prob the only thing to do but i think most of you need to be realistic. Go for it and Good Luck.....:)

Buck UP Mr Economy Guy
 

Well Mr. economist,

I'm about to set off for flight training in the states very shortly, sure I know its going to be a hell of a struggle , but just having spend the last 5 years working to get to this point having worked proffesionally in the gas fields of the middle east to Nuclear Engineering companies I'm not deterred & I'm going to tell you why. All those jobs where crap, Been there got the T shirts, every one I met in those jobs telling me of christ I wish I was your age and doing what your thinking of doing. If you want something enough and your prepared to make sacrifices theres nothing you can't do.

You gotta have a dream, and you gotta go for no point looking into to the future, the economics don't stack up etc.etc. Gawd almighty fella lifes a risk, crossing the roads a risk, Driving your cars a risk, its all one big gamble.

Don't think, just do! Looking around at what everyone else is doing isnt going to help focus on what you want, having belief in yourself will and hell you'll enjoy it.

Classic quote from the rolling stones

'You can't Always get what you want, but if you try real hard you may bet what you need'


What else you going to do in life, count money? sit behind a computer all your life, 2 a penny for people wanting to that. I've done that & its a redundant life.


You've let the ******s get you down.

My Regards

P.S. My father said to me when he was dying (I was only 17 at the time) its better to have tried & failed than never tried at all.

Well said Gabu. Good luck with your training, i'll be joining you soon!

Well said Gabu.

I was in the RAF until 2000 when I was medically grounded after 23 years flying due to the negligence of some numpties in a foreign land. In 2001 the RAF said they'd probably made the wrong decision and I managed to get a restricted Class 1. After 3 years on the ground I managed to get my CPL/IR in Feb this year - with impecable timing for the job market! I was offered a single pilot job last week with a charter company but couldn't take it beacuse I have to fly as or with a co-pilot.

The reason I went through the ground exams and retraining (which despite my experience was bloody hard) is because I believe that flying for a living is the best job there is. The job market WILL recover its simply WHEN. You have to remain positive otherwise you'd go up the wall.

Best of luck with your training and keep your posistive attitude.

PS. If ever you get a bit down during your training read
Jonathan Livingston Seagull it will help keep the dream alive.

It never ceases to amaze me how naive many of the individuals on this forum actually are. You seem to look througu rose tinted spectacles at the world of aviation.

This is not a dream job. I know - I do it for a living. It is the same as any other job, it has its plus points and its minus points. As the years go by however, the minus points seem to out weigh the plus points. If the truth be told, I am trying very hard to get out completely and do something different.

I don't understand why so many of you are so desperate to become glorified taxi drivers as least that's what you'll be regarded as by any company that employs you. And for those of you who think that there is still substantial money to be made in this industry......... there isn't that evaporated over ten years ago.

Easey Glider the point you make about management, which in fairness is often quoted by pilots as one of the banes of their lives, surely can be just as valid in any industry, anywhere across the globe.

With all due respect to you and other pilots who often quote this, this is never mentioned as a counterbalance point of view. I've worked in industry for several years and yes, we grumbled about management, pay and conditions, bonuses etc etc.....as do pilots, doctors, nurses, engineers etc etc...

I do see your point that a fair amount of wannabes do seem a tad blinkered at times and that flying after some time is a job, nothing more, nothing less, but in fairness (yes I am just a wannabe too nothing more, although family and friends are commercial pilots so a small insight into the industry), I can't think of anything I'd rather be doing for a living (yes if I won the lottery, I could think of stack loads I'd rather be doing), but as far as employment is concerned, flying is what I have chosen for various reasons.

It's always good to see (constructive) opinions from all sides and particulary one like yours having been there and lived it (as opposed to the "opinion" of the chap who started this thread, wind up one thinks), sometimes such a perspective is needed to provide some balance.

But I'd also say give folks the chance to discover for themselves what they are in for, the good and the bad.

All the best,

GB.

Easy Glider

I feel sorry that you have lost the enthusiasm for flying and as you are keen "to get out completely and do something different" I for one would appreciate your job.

It is not naive to have a dream in life. I agree that there is no perfect job but there are loads that are a lot worse than being a pilot however, to keep the interest up in professional aviation I would advise all wannabees to try the RAF first.

As for pay I personally think £60K starting salary for a Jet Captain is a good salary.

Broken Wings, Yes £60,000 is a reasonable salary but if you were a captain 20 - 30 years ago in todays terms you would be earning closer to £85,000 - £90,000!!!!

If you follow this trend to its logical conclusion, in 20 - 30 years time you will be earning more like £25,000 - £30,000 as an entry level captain. Does this still seem as good to you? I wonder what bus and train drivers will be earning at this point.

Hi everyone,

Sorry to add my opinion to this thread as it seems to have calmed down a bit.

I'd just like to say that flying is not the only job where you have to pay to work if you think about it. In the States or Europe, you pay to go to the university and private schools and most of the time a bloody amount of money...what for? to get a descent job I guess! It probably sounds simplistic but it's exactly the same to me...people try to get as many qualifications/diplomas as they can, and as sad as it can be it's all a matter of money!

I may be naive but I do see the shortage coming in the next 5 to 10 years as the babyboomers start to retire. I recently spoke with both an Air Canada and an Air France captain. The first one told me the average age of flying crews at AC is around 45 yr old and as people don't fly until 70 it means that there're not that many young pilots in the company. Air France is currently recruiting 250 pilots a year and they plan to do so for the next 5 years...they say it's inevitable if they want to cover both the natural growth of the industry and the massive departures for retirement. What it all basically means is that there will be jobs for motivated and qualified people, I have no doubt about it.
Now not all of us may find the job we exactly want or some of us might struggle more but that isn't a characteristic of the airline industry, it's the same in everywhere. I found my current job in less than a month and it took some of my friends from the same year way more time, it's just a question of luck and personality.

Finally, I'm very sad to hear that you've lost all of it easy glider. Please don't tell me you're looking at going back to an office job, seating behind a computer from 9 to 5, tell me you have much more interesting projects to quit the flying! You know we all have up and downs in our jobs and I can easily understand that you get exhausted and don't want to see another a/c after a whole day of flying...but damn how can you totally lose it??!
The flying of today is certainly not the same than 20 yrs ago when nothing was automatic but the job has evolved towards other responsabilities than just flying the bird and I can assure you that there's more than you think in that job...
As for the money....I'm even more sorry to hear that you fly for the big bucks...I'm not saying that we have to accept everything and be treated like dogs but come on, if you're not happy with £60,000 never turn your TV on again to watch the news!!

Hope the english wasn't too bad and the content not too full of rubish! :D

Good luck everyone and happy flying!

Clear

Poor Pilot

....Anyone noticed the banner at the top of this forum page indicating Ryan Air's expansion and 800 jobs Pilots.etc, says it all really.....which means people move up the ladder leaving positions at the bottom for freshly qualifieds to get their feet on the bottom run of the career ladder.

People have a lot of diposable income these days, which means they go on holiday a lot which means they fly, which means there is more competition, which means more airlines which means more jobs for pilots.,Though to a point. Look around you at the expansion of aviation, the fact that existing increasing air traffic cannot be handled by NATS etc, etc

Most airlines go bust thro p1ss poor management and a lack of market awareness.(What where BA thinking when they decided they didnt want to attract the "backpacker " class of passanger)
My worry is that its such an uphill struggle to become a professional pilot , whether people will bother taking up a career in aviation at all. I'm certainly having second thoughts, and im lucky the money isnt an issue, its the old "will I get a job at the end of it all"

I think there will be a shortage of Pilots though, unless the airlines address the issue of direct entry pilots coming straight from school/university and increase the age limit of DEPs to 40 or so as people whom have "been there, done that" and whom may have managerial skills in other walks of life still have a lot to offer.

As a 36 year old whom is looking at a career in Aviation, reading various forums in this web site is begining to dishearten me somewhat, but as others say, you might well be a stooge wishing to reduce competition. I shall be observing what goes on around me and ignore so called junior econonists and trust common sense

Short of inventing the "teleporter" as a mode of transport, the future of aviation is bright (Or orange if you work for Easyjet)

A year ago, according to so called experts, the housing market would be on its arse and prices would be falling as recession bites deeper..........anyones house dropped by 10k in the last year.. i think not. In fact its the boom in the house market that may well finance my future career.Just as well I didnt sell up last year after hearing what the the gloom and doom merchants had to say isnt it.

Suggest Poor Pilot you do something more constructive and join that happy band of economists with their mindless pessimistic drivel and write for the FT before someone shoots you down in flames STICK TO BEAN COUNTING

SB

REALITY CHECK ! :eek:
i got a JAR ATPL, 500 TT, have been waiting already almost 2 years for an interview, sent lotz of cvs. Know many guys in the same boat.
I have not tried the US (cfi..) so i dont know the situation there, i just can speak for UK and Europe.
So this 10 years of poor pilot is not so unrealistical after all...
Many wannabes are burying their head in the sand .

Most developed countries experience negative gdp growth at the moment.
Whats more, there is a strong risk of stagflation now that oil prices have rised. We are maybe heading towards a situation like 1981

It's not the fact that the airlines won't be hiring but that there will be a glut of pilots chasing those jobs.Now that the minimum 700 ruling has been removed it appears that everyman and his dog who has a PPL is going for the ATPL's.I have never seen so many people sitting the examninations and it was unheard of under the national exams to end up in Glasgow instead of Gatwick.PPL holders were quite happy just being that under the old system which meant there were probably only 300 a year coming through the self improver route. Now you even need the exams to become a flight instructor these pilots who normally would have remained so will be applying for airline jobs when advertised without the need for exra training.It was bad enough getting into the airlines 10 years ago when BA were hiring and only about 150 pilots unemployed,I wonder how many there will be in 3 yrs time?I've been there and done it,I know what it is like to be out of work for 5 yrs and the competition wasnt half as bad as it is now.My advice to you guys is go into it because you will always wonder 'what if' later on in life ,but dont be too dissapointed if it all goes pear shaped .:eek:

Since 11th September last year there have been, are now, and will continue to be jobs for pilots. Somewhere in excess of 100,000 pilots are employed by the airlines of the western world, and God knows how many more in Russia and Asia. In the US and Europe, around about 10% of those employed prior to 11th September were furloughed or made unemployed. Many of those are now back at work; many, equally, are not.

Of those 100,000, in any one year about 10-15% will retire from aviation for a variety of reasons, which means that around 10-15,000 new pilots a year continue to be needed in the western economies. Given that civilian aviation is expected to continue expanding at around 5% annually for the forseeable future, that 10-15,000 will increase by 500-750 every year.

Right now there are a lot of pilots in the system without jobs. There are also a lot of people who would like to become pilots. There aren't as many jobs as there are would-be candidates for them, as is also true of many other professions. But many of those would-be candidates are simply not good enough to be placed in charge of a large commercial airliner, and many others will disqualify themselves from selection by their poor attitude, or their assumption that the industry owes them a job because they've got the basic minimum qualifications.

Be in no doubt, the talented, hard-working, realistic, unselfish and generally decent people amongst you will succeed, given time. If that description doesn't fit you, what are you doing in this field of endeavour?

I always believed that under the JAR system there were actually fewer people training for PPLs and subsequently ATPLs due to the higher costs, compared to the old national system.

Scroggs, I agree about there being other professions where there are more candidates than jobs but can you name another profession where the high-school dumbo or dropout can train along side someone whos read astrophysics at Cambridge? In any other profession you need some sort of educational achievement even before you gain entry into that profession. Being an airline pilot it would appear is more a matter of money!!:rolleyes: