Yep he does.

And I wouldn't argue with your list either.

Its what I have been saying if you only want to fly Jets.

If you happy to come fly with the rest of us in none shiny hardware there is a cheaper way to train.

When you say it has worked out well for him...does he have a job?

Modular training finance???
 

I would agree with going modular but are there any specialist sources of finance for this approach that anyone has heard off?:confused:

Yes - best bet for modular is hard earned cash/savings. That way if you go down the FI route, you'll be able to afford to eat!

It'll also make you realise how much £50k is, and it's led a few to use as a deposit on a house and not do commercial flight training, but that's a separate debate.

I'm not sure if it has been mentioned already but I have heard that integrated courses are much more respected by airlines. I'm not sure if this is true but the only airline to recruit modular students on a regular basis are integrated, so even though it costs more to do an integrated costs, the benefits are much greater.

Opinions on my ideas
 

Hello all,

I want to start to learn flying next year after passing my A-Levels (In Germany = Abitur) and already did a lot of research on this topic.

Now I want to get some opinions on the way(s) I plan if I don't manage to get ona airline-scheme:

Way 1:
PPL + IFR at Florida Flyers in the US + Hour Building towards 190h total
CPL/ME/IFR + ATPL Theory at the Keilir Aviation Academy
MCC at Häusl Air in Germany

price: around 50.000€


Way 2:
FAA CPL/ME/IR with a US-Flightschool (also thought of Florida Flyers here, they have professional-courses with 250h flighttime)
Conversion at Diamond Flight Academy Scandinavia
MCC + ATPL Theory at Häusl Air in Germany-

price: around 50.000€


I'm not sure, which is the better way or if a integrated fATPL would be better than the above, so I want to hear your opinions.

Can anyone help me? See the psot above.

Axel, I did my IR and hour building at FF and now I'm doing the CPL course and IR conversion at Keilir.
About doing first the FAA CPL/IR/ME, don't know what to say. Personally I skipped this route considering it useless, unless you have the right to live and work in US.
If money are an issue for you, I would suggest you first to do the PPL (either FAA or EASA) in Florida, then start your ATPL theory distance, also there, building in the same time about 150h PIC, then return back in Europe and do the FI course in a school that most probably will hire you after (let say for about 2 years for instructing).You will have 3 years after the last ATPL theory exam done, to do your EASA CPL/IR/ME.
If you choose 1st way, do your ATPL theory distance learning in Florida during your hour building and then go to Keilir.
MCC course is not required by most German airlines.

The classic Modular Vs Integrated
 

Hello all... I'm 18, and started studying for my AS exams in september 2013. However, I've finally admitted defeat, they are officially too difficult for me (maths, chem and physics), so I've decided to drop out and get a full time job.

So, my question is: With earning a living now, would it be better to do my PPL through to FI, use FI to build hours, then get my ATPL and go get a job as a commercial pilot (after 6 or 7 years of instructing), or save up for 15 years or so to do the integrated route?

I think I'd really enjoy instructing, and I know the money isn't great, but to get to that stage is certainly a lot easier on my pocket than going for the integrated, and I'd be able to get plenty of experience before going into the airline world...

Thank you.

I've heard rumours that you will be able to get an FI rating on just a PPL. Not 100% sure if thats going ahead, perhaps it is going ahead or is already being done.

However, even if you can instruct with a PPL and FI rating, without doing a CPL it would be illegal for you to earn money by that method of instructing. So that'd be something to bear in mind.

I think I'm right in saying that, happy to be corrected if thats not the case!

You say you want to be an FI, get an ATPL then join airlines. You need 500hrs multi crew to get an ATPL.

The classic Modular Vs Integrated
 

You also need 1500 hours total time.

Not trying to be funny, but if you found AS level studying hard enough to beat you...the ATPL exams might prove incredibly frustrating to you.

I think Dash8' has a point. If AS level maths and physics are causing serious problems, you may find the ATPLs harder going than you expect, especially if going down the integrated route due to the intensity of the ground school phase. Saving up for 15 years to start an intensive course with a lot of maths and physics involved doesn't sound sensible. You'll be 15 years on from when you last studied either subject and, as such, find the ATPLs even harder. By then you'd also be in your mid 30s and fighting for jobs against better qualified, younger graduates, who may well have higher ATPL results due to their maths and physics aptitude.

You might want to just knuckle down and really work on the maths and physics while it's still fresh. Whichever route you take, it's going to be pretty important (notwithstanding any enormous changes in the ATPL syllabus).

You guys are talking rubbish. I had full fails in math and physics at a-level, got over 90% average in ATPLs, first time passes in everything and a stellar training record. I also managed a 98% in the theory exam of the short/medium haul jet I now fly.

Hi Guys,

Does anybody know anything about National Flight Centre in Dublin Ireland and Atlantic Flight Training academy in Cork Airport ireland? Which is better for the modular route? I was thinking of doing the integrated route in one of them but by the posts here I do not think the integrated route is worth it?

Or would i be better to do a modular route in OAA or CTC?

Hi guys just a quick question.

Is it possible to go for your ATPL theory when you have your FAA PPL with 100hrs PIC so a total of 145 or so? Okay I'll need 150TT so start with the CPL so I'll need some extra PIC hours or when I'm not ready for the PPL checkride a few lessons more.

But is it possible? Or do I need to convert it to an EASA PPL?

If your PPL is an ICAO recognized PPL (which in this case it is), then yes you can start your ATPL theory without converting your FAA PPL to an EASA. You might want to have a look at this: http://www.pprune.org/professional-p...efore-ppl.html
Cheers!

Thanks mate!

ATPL exams are not difficult. Most people get over 90% for the simple reason that the questions and multiple choice answers are freely available to all students.

The background theory, however... well, that may be beyond a lot of people.

Should I risk more to succeed?
 

Good afternoon, I´m a student pilot doing the theory of the ATPL at Oxford (distance learning) and was very satisfied with the quality of the instructors in my first brush up course. I recently tried to get a 30000 pounds secured loan from a Spanish bank to finish the rest of my modular training but got refused due to the current economic climate there.

We all know that BBVA provides secured loans to those integrated students from oaa, and they tend to find jobs more easily (or faster) than rest of the modular pilots.

Considering my personal situation, would you consider wise spending 100.000 pounds to get the integrated course in one of the best schools or should I continue my modular training, which without a loan might take me 3-5 years more to finish.

Best regards.

Mod training
 

As ever, each to their own opinion, this is what I've done. I'm sure others will give their own input too.

I considered doing CTC or OAA integrated so I had the same choice. I made the choice to do it whilst holding down a full-time job, just about to finish my last 3 ATPL's D/L and hopefully do my CPL/IR down at CTC.

For me, not wanting to have that burden of debt over my head convinced me to do it mod. I've spent 3 years saving up, travelling all over the place with work, flying at the weekends, completing my PPL, trips with friends, girlfriend and enjoying my flying, rather than being in crap loads of debt with no guarantee of a job and the stress that comes with it. Would I have gone integrated if I could have afforded it? Definitely, but I couldn't.

However, Now i'm in the position of having £50k in the bank, can finish my training, go back to my job after finishing the CPL/IR and if takes me 2 years to get a jet job, then so be it. I won't have any debt and will be able to potentially fund a type rating for a certain airline if I am given the opportunity.

Yes you'd prob get a job quicker through integrated, but what happens if you don't? That's what I thought, and I'm pleased with my decision.

Hi there,

Someone over here who has experience about getting your FAA PPL and directly 100hrs PIC in the USA? There are really a lot of schools who give this opportunity. Have talked with AAA, Chandler and Naples.

Which one did you go, or would you recommend?
What timeframe do I need to think of? The FAA PPL can be obtained in a timeframe of 6-8 weeks from what I've been advised, and getting the 100hrs done can be done in 20 days, but I will calculate it as 30 days (maintenance, bad weather etc). Is this realistic?
Is total price (housing/food/tickets from EU to US/medicals/tests/TSA/M1 etc) €25.000 realistic?

ATPL Theoretical Training - CBT or...?
 

Gents,

Since I am working full-time I would like to take the ATPL theoretical examinations following a CBT programme.
I have been exploring a number of FTO's, and besides what I found on their websites I could no retrieve useful information on reliability and quality of their training courses.

I would like to ask if anybody has performed on-line theoretical training and what are your recommendations, things to pay attention etc...
I quote here an email received from a Romanian FTO:

Modular or Integrated ATPL training?
 

Hey people. I am looking forward for my ATPL training but am confused whether i should go for modular or integrated. Modular is much more time consuming but I heard it has it's own benefits too.

Some folks are telling me to go for modular and some are telling me to go for Integrated.

PPRuNers your thoughts on this would help.

Thanks

Arpan

Regarding this and your other O-level post asking for assistance. I and others from the O-level post often reply with sensible answers to SPECIFIC questions asked by potential students. Your original request was not specific enough, then you didn't like some of the answers re UK. People will not help you after they have gone to the EFFORT to assist but you don't like their answer as it's not relevant to you.

The integrated modular debate has been flogged to death on this forum, try searching them. There is a sticky post near the top of the page, I suggest you start there.

You must learn to do some work and put some effort in yourself then you are likely to get some helpful replies. Best of luck, you are going to need it.

Modular or Integrated ATPL training?
 

Hello Richard

My intention was not to offend anyone. If you and others felt offended by my replies I apologise deeply.

And as far as I can recall I don't think I said anything about not liking anyone's answer. The wiggy said it I thought it was rude (my way of thinking) I never said that his answers were bad or I didn't like them.

Not modular vs integrated but modular vs modular
 

Ok, I am treading carefully with the old debates and I'll make this fast:

Nearly got PPL, I want to be in Spain preferably.
There are two schools I found: GAir Madrid (formerly Gestair) and FTE Jerez.

If you haven't heard of Gestair, I don't blame you. However their modular course is around the £30k mark (inc. ATPL theory, CPL, IR, Multi-Crew, Multi Engine). Not bad for the 9th best in Europe and 4th in Spain.

Jerez you may well have heard of. Huge campus and bill to match. I can't quite work out the modular price, they seem to like hiding individual course prices (God forbid someone get a calculator and ask where all that extra money for integrated courses goes...). But they do feed airlines, have that crucial connection to them and they seem to have a good careers service.

1.) Could I get a bunch of qualifications from Gestair (maybe my ATPL theory) and then do some at Jerez? And if so, would I still get that sparkle on my CV (so to speak) of having studied at Jerez, or does that only come with their integrated course?

2.) Is the type-rating that much of a holy Grail for airlines to employ you? Once I have my PPL, ATPL theory, Multi-Crew, Multi-Engine, CPL, Instrument Rating, night rating, around 200 or so hours and that darned type rating - is it interview city from then on?

I would appreciate any advice or commiserations from anyone else suffering with a similar dilemma. Not integrated vs modular but which path to go with a modular.

It doesn't matter which way you trained its a slog to get a job post qualification unless you are on a mentored cadetship.

Going to one of the big schools to get a name doesn't do anything for your CV.

Over 50% of qualified pilots never get to earn a cent with their license.

Buying a type rating with out job at the end of it will do nothing for your chances. In fact it closes more doors than it opens.

I'm trying to put together a table for a comparison of the minimum hours required on both the Integrated and Modular routes to achieve a CPL MEP IR with ATPL theory. I am finding that the answer depends on, for instance, the requirements to start the CPL course on the modular route which seem to have changed recently and I think I am at risk of missing some of the points of fine detail that Flight Instructors would know and I do not. Has anyone done this exercise recently and would be prepared to share it? If so please email me at [email protected]

It due to the requirement now to have 200 hours built before sitting the CPL skills test.

Before people used to do cpl sit the test do the IR and then apply for the whole lot when they had 200 hours.

It basically makes it more efficient to do the twin IR first then get your hours up to 185 then do a 15 hour CPL.

The amount of hours hasn't really changed apart from adding the test time on top of the 200 hours its just the order you do things in has changed.

Some schools are not embracing doing the IR first and want to keep the old order of things so want the students with 175 hours and then they do the 25 hour single engine CPL then MEP and then IR.

So they come out with about 223 hours if the IR is done on a FNPT II.

Looking at CV's the 223hours is quite common.

Thanks Jock, could you or anyone else help me out with the hours to follow this path, please, on minimums, because the next task is to attach some prices to it..

PPL 45 hours (including 5 sim)
hours build ?
MEP ?
IR ?

to get to 185 hrs (including how many sim, assuming FNPTII available?)

then 15 hour CPL course
then test ... one hour?

....and for the CPL/IR integrated course, it seems to be a minimum of 180 hours with up to 40 of them in the sim. Can anyone who does integrated courses please confirm that?

you need to go to the relevant section in the CAP.

There are multiple options for each thing depending what you already hold.

You can combine the CPL with a MEP if you like as well.

The PPL is the only set thing at 45 hours no sim.

6 Hours is the normal MEP

And night is 5 Hours.

CPL 15 or 25 hours depending if you have IR. And another 3 hours on top if it includes MEP 5 hours can be in the sim I think.

I think they have played with the hours in the IR again since my day. We used to be able to log everything on the course towards it. But now they have changed it so that you can only log hours under the hood. So if you have 20 mins taxi on a 2 hour flight you can only log 1:40 towards the required course hours.

not really, plenty of instructor jobs going as people have moved on.

Its just modular slip into jobs and nobody hears about them.

They usually get jobs by word of mouth as well and networking.

But the whole market is hugely over supplied.

Well I know of 2 just gone to BMIR modular.

But the big schools would like you to think that what you have said is true.

I choose Modular
 

After reading countless threats on here about MPL, CTC, OAA, FTE, etc and attending some open days! My conclusion has been to do modular route instead.

Not only is much MUCH cheaper, modular seems to be more fun, less pressure (as you are not being constantly accessed!) etc.

I'm also aware that my chances of employment are lower since ATO schools have partner airlines (consider OAA that just signed a contract with Air Algerie to train 200 cadets!).

I do intend in becoming an airline pilot as quickly as possible, but I also want to do it wisely and not having a 80+ grand loan on my back!

I'm considering in joining Stapleford flight centre to do my whole modular training, which will begin next year in January!

So my questions are:

Has anyone who did modular at stapleford got a job within a year?
How is stapleford like? What kind of advice, based on experience could you give?

And for modular fATPL cadets, how long you been looking for your first airline job?

Thanks! :)

PID,

Well done for researching and deciding not to go for one of the big schools. Your bank account will love you. I don't know much about schools but you may want to rethink your employment time frame. Some people wait much longer than a year to crack that first job. For many the first job isn't in an airline. You could get lucky and go straight to a jet but you need to think about other options too. You may find yourself instructing or flying air taxi. You may get the opportunity to work in ops at an airline.

It's a short route for some but for most it will take a lot of dedication and persistence. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

If you aren't comfortable being constantly assessed then an airline career is most certainly not for you.

Besides, you should be grabbing any possibility to be assessed with both hands. It gives you the chance to set yourself from the countless other wannabes. Have something to put on your CV/say in an interview.

utter :mad: Blantoon.


I was mod and never scored less than B+

And these days I don't get graded which I think is a bad thing.

I choose Modular also
 

PID,

I am also in the same position as you. I was convinced that integrated was the way, to the point I also went and visited different schools CTC,FTE,OAA,AFTA but pilotchute is completely correct. "Your bank account will love you" couldn't be more clearer!!. I highly suggest to anyone looking to make a decision on flight training to really do your homework. Is an integrated course right for you? have you actually looked at a modular course? can you meet and keep up with the repayments of undertaking such a large loan? as Pilotchute mentioned and I am sure many others would agree "Some people wait much longer than a year to crack that first job. For many the first job isn't in an airline" (this is not an attack on anyone who choose to do either by the way. I want to make that very clear! I feel that it is personal choice based one your own circumstances).

My reasons for choosing the modular route and this and this is completely my own personal situation, maybe Integrated course is for you,

I was doing my research on schools and was putting things together to take down to the bank to apply for a loan (worked hard and saved my A** off by the way) for an integrated course and when you actually sit down and crunch the numbers and right things down in front of you on paper it actually scared me. Taking into consideration the course itself, then Accommodation which may or may not be included in your course, and then living expenses for 14-18 months it really adds up at least €90-100,000 and that's before the likes of RYR asking you to pay for type rating etc. which is a whole other topic in itself.

This made me go away and rethink my whole decision which was not right for me personally."Not only is much MUCH cheaper, modular seems to be more fun, less pressure" I would certainly agree with this and it's also Less pressure from the Bank asking for their money back!! there are other options out there. I found a school called Bartolini Air in Poland which is a EASA approved FTO so your licence will be issued by your local CAA. I don't want to turn this into a which school is better topic but I heard good things about them and I am going to visit on Thursday to see first hand myself. Keep your options open.