carbheaton,
The question is valid as the JAA CPL specifically includes this in the skills test.

Also, it is my opinion that considering the possibility reduces the risk of it ever occuring for obvious reasons.

HWD

The poster, Buggingout dosent mention which Skills Test he is preparing for so I assumed PPL.

and in my opinion, preparing for the possibility ensures that it will happen.

It appeaars obvious to me that there is a difference in thinking here between PPLs and CPL's. As a ppl student I never quite understood the MSA/MEF thing and I was given 5 hours Intrument instruction on how to do a 180 if I entered cloud. AT CPL level Instrument flying becomes more of a factor and part of the test criteria includes a simulated cloud entry(screens up) and the first thing you do is CLIMB TO MSA.You then must find a fix using what ever instruments are available to you and get out. You do not need a IR to hold a CPL and hense its not true to say any VFR pilot should never enter cloud and leave it like that. The facts are they do and how to get out of it is very important.
MEF= Highest known obstacle+ 300ft rounded up to nearest 100(used for VFR)
MSA=Highest terrain +1000ft within 5nm( used as safe altiude for IFR or if you enter cloud) this becomes +2000ft in mountains.

carbheaton,
I suspect that largely mis-adventure befalls the ignorant. If I believe it is easy to miss assumptions, make a bad decision and end up in IMC as one of the possible outcomes, then surely I am more likely to look for reasons why it might happen and better prepared to plan to avoid.

However, one of the sensible thoughts I would have is, what should I do if I enter IMC. Here is an example where the weather forecast was for VFR, but it wasn't to be so, and there was no way out for the helpless pilot: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/o...re/4906670.stm

Fullrich and HWD

I couldnt agree more with both of you. If you are trained to deal with IFR conditions, even to a very basic degree, then by all means use that training and execute a 180 and get of of there.

However, the original post by buggingout states that the pilot has no IR or IMC and as a result I think that there are no circumstances under which IMC conditions should be entered. Without training, the odds of survival are massively stacked against you.

There dosent have to be bad wx to produce the accident the link above refers to. Last summer, two experiences pilots left EIWT for home in Wales and never made it. It was a beautiful summers day and it is suspected that they entered a fog bank near the Welsh coast and didnt survive. Pilot flying had an IMC rating.

To go or not ot go
 

Beagle says all there is to say. VFR and Rule 5 and thats it.

As for carbheaton's analogy of the IMC rating. WRONG on all counts! The IMC rating has proved so successful that the CAA back it completely and fought for its retention and now campaign for its recognition by JAA/EASA. Weather related accidents rarely involve current IMC rated pilots.

Being someone who flys a fair bit on the continent in light aircraft i can vouch for the many incidents of mainland Europe VFR only PPLs becoming lost in poor viz and they do so on a very regular basis.

I personally think, and I use the posts on this topic as justification for my opinion (and it is just my opinion), that the CAA IMC rating encourages pilots to think that they can get through wx that they really should have run a mile from five minutes agao. My aviation authority, like many others in europe dont recoginise the IMC rating and as a result, not as many non CAA license holders get into the difficulties that this poster has asked advice on. ........[snip]..... By teaching a 'taster' for IFR which the IMC programme does, it gives a false sence of security and leaves pilots with an IMC thinking that they can cope with what is the most demanding of all flying skills - IFR. Please STOP the IMC qualification I say, but then again, who am I!!

Sorry to be forthright but the above is complete bolloc*s.

The IMC Rating is a superb privilege. It has enabled many many pilots to get utility out of their aircraft, and to fly safely in what is typical UK weather. Many are aircraft owners who fly 100-200 hours/year and are much more current than somebody who did an IR and is now hanging around waiting for an airline job.

In any instrument flight scenario, you are as good as your currency on the type. Plus a lot of IMC Rated pilots find it hard to get into an airplane that's good enough for real IFR, but that's the UK flight training business for you! Should something be banned because some holders will not keep up their currency?

There is no data supporting the assertion that the IMC Rating reduces safety; in fact the very opposite.

Finally, other countries have no option on its lack of recognition, because its IFR privileges are specifically limited to UK only in the ANO.

Who saids can't avoid
 

The claim that the CPL skills test conduct prescribes deviating from track is utter rubbish.
Of course the candidate should demonstrate their ability to carry out the flight at minimum expense and time to the customer but NOT at the the cost of safety. Always - it will be legitimate to divert around weather when VMC is required to be maintained. The Minimum Altitude will be in accordance with the school SOP or Pilots Order Book. Should the SOP or POB require 1,000ft clearance above an obstruction then that must be achieved. If not, Rule 5 becomes the minima. The school approval will however require that a minima is clearly stated. Should minima not be achievable by diverting reasonably from track then the test should be terminated by the candidate. Should forcasts not have predicted the weather encounted it is not the fault of the candidate.

Be practical.
Of course you should always avoid cloud but it so happens that there are occasions where you do hit it and it all happens very very quickly.
Full power climb combined with a 180 turn for a PPL without IMC is a recipe for disaster, you loose all sense of balance with the power and 'you are seconds from disaster'. In my early days I was very lucky and many others will admit to the same experience.
Turn by all means and use your compas as a reference not your judgement. Dont alter power settings if you are a basic PPL.
The answer is to fly with a good appreciation of what is around you - even if you don't see the cloud you should be aware from the chart that
you are flying towards a hazard and you should give it a wide berth. You shouldn't have plogged near it in the first place!

I endorse pretty well everything IO540 says here; the IMC Rating is an excellent tool if used properly.

It is hugely more affordable than the current JAA IR/SPA and the only real differences are that it cannot be used for IFR in Class A airspace - so that's no airways and SVFR only in Class A CTRs.

It is widely anticipated that the IMC Rating will be allowable as the first part of the draft JAA IR/SPA revision. It will also be the objective of a UK aviation group with an international representation to demonstrate the considerable merits of the IMC Rating to the wider world of EASAland; furthermore, should the UK NPPL become the future model for the EASA RPPL, it may well be possible to propose conditions (mainly medical, experience, training and testing) under which an IMC Rating and a night qualification could perhaps be added to the RPPL in the not-so-distant future.......