The cost of achieving fATPL?
 

Hello, I've got a question about job.
I'm interested in flying, and I'm building home cockpit with my dad, in future i wanna be a pilot, and i have some questions about this:
How much hours i must have flown to get a job in some american airline, and how much cost to flown these flying hours in america?
PS. sorry for my english

to get a job with an american airline you must make sure you have the right to live and work in the US first!

Good for you young man, study hard at school and you may be lucky enough to pick up a cadet scheme.
To learn to fly in England it is about £5000.00 that is just your PPL
Happy Sim Flying Days!!
:ok:

100'000 euro with a type rating.
what you can do, is sell type ratings on your home build simulator, then charge pilots 30'000 euro.
print them a certificate and tell them it is JAA approved.
when they will discover the scam, change country, and repeat the same thing.contact eaglejet, maybe they will send you some of their students on their waiting lists...


what kind of plane are you building?

A320 Rider,

Your posts are a complete joke, and for every post you write, you lose even more respect from those that read them. You don't have much of a future in this industry so start being positive and try and give some constructive advice.

You forgot rental of aircraft and landing fees and navigation fees not to mention test fees

edit- nice to see a female wannabe, Makes a change

Different schools have different costs. Get in touch with schools like Stapleford Flight Centre, Cabair, Atlantic Flight Training, Oxford Aviation Training, etc. and ask them about the modular course and the costs involved.

Forgot to mention that if you are willing to relocate, you could obtain a foreign licence and return to the Europe to convert.

To start CPL I think you need 150 hours total time, of which 100 must be PIC, not 150 PIC.

Wot ultimatepro63 said, plus class 1 medical, accomodation (on ATPL theory brush up courses and CPL/IR courses if away from home), ATPL exam fees, personal equipment and CAA licence fees.

And don't forget that the schools' quotes are for minimum required hours. You may want to add 50% to each course as contingency against extra hours and other costs not included in the quotes.

The only other minimmum hour requirement I can think of, apart from for the CPL, is 70 hours PIC for the Multi-Engine.

Good luck with the PPL.

In regards to doing your PPL in the UK let me give you some tips from experience. Find a club that is in tune with your thinking about how long you want the PPL to take. Look them straight in the eyes and get them to agree to a date for completion subject of course to your ability. If they start hedging their bets then I would look elsewhere. I speak from experience on this. Having done 20 hours at a NW London school many moons ago and on my 3rd instructor I was continually going over the same stuff and paying through the teeth for it. I was ready to go solo after about 10-12 hours but had an instructor that would make me fly dual if the weather was marginal for fear of losing cash by cancelling the slot on the day. Added to this were the usual cancellations for weather/hangovers of instructors/aircraft tech/fire engine broken so field not legal etc. I finally gave up and went to Florida and did the whole thing in 3 weeks flying twice a day. Did wonders for my confidence and I ended up consolidating my flying by taking more holidays a short time later and burning 100 hours. Your wish to learn in the UK is commendable but don't let it get in the way of you completing your PPL in a reasonable time frame. Don't be afraid to pull the plug on it and hop on a plane if you get stuffed around by a club either. On returning to the UK with my nice shiny licence I knew I would have to do a checkout and familiarisation. I found a nice friendly club and enrolled on an IMC course. Rather than just paying an instructor for checkouts I had rationalised that I might as well get some proper instruction for my money so the IMC made sense to me. There were added benefits for another jaunt back to the US as it enabled me to hone my instrument and navigation skills as well and give me much greater confidence bimbling around the deserts knowing 100% where I was rather than relying totally on VFR maps and picking obscure landmarks etc.

With the weather changing you have probably chosen a not to bad time of year to be starting although just remember that every other club member will be thinking the same and dusting off their flight bags ready for a bimble around the skies. Book up loads of slots months in advance and if you can try and fly a couple of times a week at a minimum so that you don't find yourself forgetting what you did last lesson and having to reconsolidate. Good luck.

total costs for atpl in usa
 

hi there,

i'm from germany and wants to do my atpl...
how many money do i have to pay if i want to do the atpl in usa? not only for the school. for everything (living, etc.) i think many of you did that or wants to do it too.

bye

klaus

Roughly €60,000. I can't give you a specific quote as personal prefrences dictate what sort of price you will pay.

yes more or less that price!
Than depends if you wanna do the FAA study there and than the conversion or you wanna get the JAA studies in the US

recently i've been in Florida and the living costs aren't so high...calculate 1000$ per month (but if you spend them all you are CRAZY!)

While if you wanna do the JAA course in the states have a look for example here www.near-as.no

Fabio

How much will a JAA CPL H cost me?????
 

Hi.
I want to do a JAA PPL/CPL/CFI H !
Im thinking od going to HAI,How much Rufly will it cost me?
Thanks:ok:

Why not try ringing HAI?

Phil

You'd be best off searching the Rotorheads forum for the answer to this! If you are thinking of going to HAI (and there are disadvantages - again, search the forums), then contact them for quotes.

Where you want to train can also depend on where you want to work! You need to look at the employment prospects as well.

Your question is too open and too global for anyone to answer it simply!

In the UK, the minima are 45 hours PPL, then 110 hours hour building (which will include your night rating), 30 hours CPL, then hour building for another 65 hours for the instructor course and then the FI course which is 35 hours (IIRC). If you do this on a Robinson at, say £210 per hour (rough/ruff UK average) it will total £60k. Then there are various fees and exams costs plus ground school.

Cheers

Whirls



Going to have a lie down as I've just scared myself with those figures!

Thanks..
So about €80,000. And because im 17 now,will i get an instructor job ahndy enough after training? Whats the CPL pay like per year???????

depends on which country you want to work but there is not a lot of work around. You might get part time work so make sure you have another career/job to fall back on.

Pretty low! Even if you can find the work. There is very little work for low-hours CPL(H)s. AT 17, you might want to consider joining the Forces!

Sorry to be pessimistic but it's an employer's market at the moment and, until you've got at least 500 hours, you would be very lucky to make a living on it.

Cheers

Whirls

As I nearly have my PPL A,mabey I should stick with an Airline career looking at those heli costs!!

Zero to Holding Pool - How much the modular route cost me
 

I just thought that some of you would be interested to know how much the modular route cost me.

March 2002 - 45hour PPL Course with Solent Flight Southampton £6885
April 2002 - Class 2 Medical £150
Nov 2002 - CAA Licence issue fee £143

I completed my PPL in 45 hours so total was £7178 plus 2 landings at Bristol and 2 landings at Exeter.

Jan 03 - 5 hours Night Training £700
Jan 03 - CAA Licence issue fee £64

Jan 03 - Initial Class 1 Medical £430 (plus travelling costs)

May 03 - Enroled with Bristol Ground School. Module 1 £1100

Oct 03 - IMC Course (Not required, but good to have) £2558
Oct 03 - IMC Test £163
Oct 03 - CAA Licence Issue fee £67

Mar 04 - Module One exam Fees (8 exams) £440
Mar 04 - 2 weeks Bristol B & B (Approx) £350 (plus travel costs)
Mar 04 - 1 week Gatwick B & B (Approx) £150 (plus travel costs)

Mar 04 - Bristol Module 2 £800

May 04 – Multi Engine Rating & Test, Professional Air Training, Bournemouth £2885
May 04 – CAA Licence issue £70

Oct 04 - Module Two exam Fees (6 exams) £330
Oct 04 - 2 weeks Bristol B & B (Approx) £350 (plus travel costs)
Oct 04 - 1 week Gatwick B & B (Approx) £150 (plus travel costs)

Dec 04 – Started Instrument Rating 55hr course, Professional Air Training, Bournemouth

Jan 05 – Class 1 Medical Renewal £70

Jan 05 – Passed Instrument Rating with 56 hours training plus 2 tests, £15515
Jan 05 – CAA Test Fee £1063 (Partialled on first attempt)
Jan 05 – Started CPL 15 hour course (Multi Engine), PAT, Bournemouth

Feb 05 – Passed CPL with 15 hours training plus 2 tests, £5579
Feb 05 - CAA Test Fee £1063 (Partialled on first attempt)
Mar 05 – CAA Licence Issue - £194

May 05 – MEP Renewal £336

Jun 05 – MCC with Jetlinx on the A320 £3500

Jan 06 – IR Renewal, PAT, Bournemouth £820
Jan 06 – Class 1 Medical Renewal £104

Apr 06 – CTC Stage 2 £164

May 06 – MEP Renewal, PAT, Bournemouth £603

Jun 06 – CTC Stage 4 (AQC Course) £6691

Now swimming in CTC's Holding Pool, Total Cost of Training is £53489. but……………..
That figure is only for the training.

Hour building / Pleasure flying is:

PA28, Warrior, Arrow and Archer hire from passing my PPL to date is £12599
BE76 hire from passing my MEP to date is £2830

Total Rental £15429

So the total cost of achieving fATPL, with 245 hours was £68918.

A lot of the rental figure was shared by the people I took with me. At a guess I would think I probably got back about £5000 by sharing rental costs.

I didn’t choose the cheapest way, there are ways that this figure could have been reduced.

1) No requirement to do an IMC (However it was good preparation for the IR and probably helped me pass the test with the minimal IR training hours)
2) No requirement to renew class 1 medical until you need it for a job
3) Didn’t need to do an MCC because the CTC course covers that requirement (However would I have passed the CTC course without the 20hours and superb training I received with Jetlinx??)
4) The CPL could have been done in a Single Engine Aircraft.
5) I could have done the hour building in the states (That would have meant time off work, air fares and no friends to share the cost)
6) The MEP could have been done as part of the IR

It’s worth looking at these prices and comparing them to the figures that people are quoting for taking the modular route.

Of course if you were to go the integrated route with a school that has an arrangement with an airline and you meet the required standard you are home and dry for a similar sum of money.

If however, you take the integrated route and do not go straight into an airline job you will still have to pay for renewals, CTC (If that’s the way you wish to go) and flying hours to keep yourself marketable.

Food for thought

SW

good post - looked at PAT's website and they seem quite expensive. Which airline are you going with or do you not know yet??

Newbie

I didn't really feel that PAT were that expensive. In any case you should look at the positive comments they get from previous students http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=233912

Not assigned an airline yet and no idea when I'll be leaving the pool.

SW

Modular pricing appreciated
 

Thanks for the cost breakdown, an enlightening summary. Appreciate that corners can be cut, PAT may not be the cheapest - but have an excellent reputation, built on years of experience. Good luck with the pool!

SkyHigh

I still find it hard to see people doing a ppl in a month! Out of interest how did you afford it all? Hour building really worries me as I dnt really want to go abroad

It doesn't look as though he did the PPL in a month?

Interesting post.

I started my PPL in March 02 and completed it in November 02. I was flying once or twice a week depending on work and the weather.

How did I afford it? Let's just say I had a well paid job, and I'm taking a significant pay cut by becoming an FO :eek:

Luckily I've sent Mrs Sky Wave out to work whilst I lounge around waiting for CTC to call me :ok:

Great post Skywave. Interestingly enough I am about to start with PAT in the next few months and we seem to have taken reasonably similar paths so far with things like the IMC rating etc.

Fortunately I am debt free which I guess is why I have been pretty poor at keeping track of the expenses along the way. What struck me was just how much cash I would have spent when it is all done. Like you say this will exclude living expenses, cost of flying kit (must be thousands in itself) and most importantly loss of income whilst I have been studying.

Great post Sky Wave and good luck with the job...CTC cadets dont swim for long before getting pulled out, dried off and thrown into the RHS of an airliner. :ok:

Top marks for honesty! A refreshing change from the usual "Go modular, you'll get the same licence as integrated but you'll have £30k to spend on a type rating" nonsense that we usually get on here.

Best of luck for whatever's next!:ok:

sorry my mistake! Good luck, wish i was you! Dread to think what you were being paid previously!!what were you doing out of interest, as im near you and there arent that many well paid jobs in this area

Skywave, thank you for that excellent post. To fill in the gaps, what would you assess as your accommodation and other incidental costs during your training? If, as I assume, you lived at home during this training, perhaps you can give some kind of estimate of the kind of costs some of our wannabes would incur.

The reason I ask is that, in some of the integrated or structured modular schools, accommodation is part of the price (yes, I know it's not at Oxford!), so it's reasonable to include it when making a comparison.

Scroggs

Newbie

:= That would be telling. Let’s just say I’ve been doing this job ever since I left school and I’m now 31. It was also very rare that I ever worked anywhere near home.:{


Scroggs

There were very few additional costs in my case because I only live 10 minutes away from Bournemouth airport.

I’ve listed the times during my training that accommodation was needed:-

Bristol Groundschool Module 1 – 12 Nights (approx figure included above)
Gatwick Module 1 Exams – 4 Nights (approx figure included above)
Bristol Groundschool Module 2 – 12 Nights (approx figure included above)
Gatwick Module 2 Exams – 4 Nights (approx figure included above)
Jetlinx MCC – 1 Night in a Gloucester hotel during the Groundschool weekend.(£50)
CTC Stage 3 – 1 Night at a local hotel prior to my interview (£50) - (Even though I’m only 30 mins away, it wasn’t worth the risk)
CTC Stage 4 – 20 Nights (Included in the cost that I’ve given for CTC)

I was very fortunate with the weather and training slots and my CPL/IR took about 9 weeks. I would strongly suggest that anyone budgeting for accommodation during their CPL/IR allow for 12 weeks.

All of the equipment needed to do my PPL was included in the cost of the course. These items were:-

Books for the PPL ground exams
A Chart
A Knee Board
A CRP-1 Computer (you’ll need CRP-5 for ATPL studies)
Protractor
Rule
Permanent Marker Pens
Audio Tape for learning RT
Flight Bag
Fuel Drainer
Headphones
Logbook

Other expenses include:

Charts £14 per year
Additional headphones £400 (The set that I got as a PPL were very basic)
CRP-5 Computer £72


I can’t think of any other necessary expenses, except for petrol/travelling expense.


The final consideration is loss of earnings. I already had a mortgage at the point I decided to start my training so I had to take the distance learning option to enable me to continue paying the mortgage and keep up the flying training.

Hope this helps.

SW

Skywave

If i didnt know better I thought you were my wife, another great bookkeeper :D

Great post and agree that it puts the modular or not discussion in a different perspective :)

Accomodation costs
 

Scroggs et al,

I am currently looking at accomodation in Bournemouth as I will be starting my CPL/IR in the next couple of months. There are various options available from basic B&B's, guesthouses, small/big hotels and living with families. If you leave it to the last minute then you might be able to swing a house share through something like the Gumtree website.

After looking at all of the above I am going for a room in a private house with a nice old duck and I understand a couple of other wannabees occupy the other rooms so hopefully I will have no shortage of drinking buddys. Price is £105 per week which includes all your meals. Nothing else to pay her and you get the full run of the place. The multi/CPL/IR will take me about 3 months as a cautious estimate so it will be 3 months of that plus the other indicidentals that crop up eg: beer money, meals out etc when you get cabin fever. This type of arrangement depends a lot on timing and being in the right place at the right time. You wouldn't expect to get something as cheap as this for attending say a 2 week brush up course. For that I know guys are getting rates of about £20-25 a night B&B.

Yes, thank you Pot. I'm not looking for accommodation! Virgin pays my mortgage quite adequately already, thanks. What I was looking for was an estimate of accommodation costs to go along with Sky Wave's course costs to complete the comparison data he's trying to provide. As some integrated or structured modular courses include accommodation, it's valid to include accommodation in a comparison of costs.

Scroggs

Err, I realise that and it was only intended to help you and the other wannabees looking in to fill in the blanks. You did ask the question after all.

Yes, alright then (though I'm not a wannabe!). So what we have is a ballpark £105 per week for accommodation while training. Say, £2700 for 6 months (over a total of 18 or so) to add to Sky Wave's figures.

Scroggs

Bear in mind when doing a cost comparison that, as Skywave said himself, he could have done it cheaper in places. I followed a similar path to skywave myself including going through the CTC scheme and I reckon the total cost of training was just over £36000, including all travel and accommodation costs directly related to my training. So the possibility is still there to obtain the licence and start flying commercially without getting buried in debt.

PW

You could go modular for a lot cheaper than the above though...hour building abroad etc..

£6885 for a ppl! rip-off

Doesn't seem particularly representative of the modular route to me